Memorising tunes

[Sussex Pipes]

I guess this is aimed more at the older, experienced pipers.
How easy do you find it to memorise tunes? As a kid it seemed no problem - provided I liked the tune (I can only recall a couple of tunes I disliked), but at 53, it seems increasingly hard to bed them down into the grey matter.
What about the older, less experienced pipers - or folk who have taken up the instrument in adulthood? Do they come easily or is it just as challenging to improve fingering and memorise a tune at the same time?

[Troy Jesse]

I just started learning a month after my 40th birthday, and now am 8 months into the total process, around 3 months on the pipes. I am having a little difficulty memorizing tunes.... I try doing small bits, putting the parts I know together... but invariably I get one or two notes mixed up...

Of all the tunes I have practiced (somewhere around 20 at this point) I only have three down cold...

Too much stuff in the brain I guess.... so much for a PhD - it is taking up bagpipe space :)

[OKiepiper2]

I stated pipes at 53, going to be 59 this fall. It was a real struggle to try and memorize at first. I thought I never would get the first tune down, Scots Wah Hae or something similar. The more I have played the easier it gets. It is a learned skill so don't think you are too old to do it - you're not. A few suggestions.
- Learn the tune by singing it. If you can hum or sing it, you will be able to memorize much quicker.
- Don't try and memorize the whole tune or a whole line. Work on one measure or phrase at a time. Start stringing them together over time.
- Don't try and learn it all in one day either. It still takes me a week or two to learn a two part tune fairly well.
- At least initially only work on memorizing one tune at a time

Best to you - it will come around!

- OK2

[Ken Fitzpatrick]

I;m 44 and i find memorizing tunes pretty easy, over the last week and a half ive learned Cock of the North, Rowan Tree, Bonnie Galloway and Rustic Bridge pretty easy tunes really, i can play them on the pipes but i make the odd wrong note, now im onto Sally Wilson but what i do is sit and play the tune over and over about 50 times looking at the sheet music then when i stop you find your self humming the tune in your head then when you go back to the tune i learn the first two bars off by heart then when you come to play the rest you will know if you make a wrong note and its pretty easy to get it right. i learn the first two lines in a day then next day the rest but with tunes like Rowan Tree and Bonnie Galloway a half a day each.
I,ve learned 17 and can play 14 comfy.

[Scott.Williams]

I started learning to play when I was a first year university student. By the next summer, I could play 18 tunes. I applied for, and got a job piping in the evenings at a nearby tourist area (restaurant and motel). The next year, when I applied to go back there for the summer, I wrote that I now could play 300 tunes. By the third year, I wrote that I could play over 1000 tunes. It was so easy to learn back then! Sigh!

Now, some 35 years later, I have a difficult time learning a few new tunes for a pipe band medley! That's why I like being the pipe major - I pick the tunes, and they are mostly ones I have been playing for a long time!

[Sussex Pipes]

" - I pick the tunes, and they are mostly ones I have been playing for a long time! "

Therein lies the problem Scott! I found that I was teaching tunes I knew or had played over the years, and there was'nt the incentive to break new ground. I'm hoping though that the freshness of new tunes might help the memory process.

[zeeew]

I have the hardest time getting the correct grace notes memorized. Main tune takes some time too, but the worst for me is all the little guys.
I have maybe 15 or so down pretty well after just over 11 months total, with about 8 on pipes. I am 42.
Some time was spent "relearning" a few tunes to put the grace notes in, after learning them with minimal grace notes for the first 3 or 4 months.
I dont want to get off track, but I felt learning them without all the grace notes made it easier to memorize, and also "accomplished something" instead of just getting frustrated and not seeing any progress.

[Ron Teague]

Well one of my previous teachers, told me to memorize each phrase, learn the structure of the tune( ab,cb etc) and it is easy to remember. Making up your own cantaireachd is VERY helpful for getting the grace notes straight. My current teacher has just told me to play each BAR 30-40 times before learning the NEXT bar and then do this again with the second bar for ceol beg but stick with the phrase method for ceol mor. It seems to work for me except for very weird tunes like Malcom Furguson where Wee Donald MacLeod messed up all of the grace notes to torture clunky students like me. I won't get this tune down 'till next February at least. I've more than a score of piobaireachd tunes memorized using this method.



Cheers

[Rick]

I have a trick for helping anchor tunes in my memory. Once I reach the point when I can play it through correctly without referring to the music, I write the name on a small wooden disc. The disc goes into a coffee can on my desk. Then at some point when I'm practicing I'll draw out discs at random and play a half a dozen or so tunes. Once played the disc goes into a different container until I've emptied the coffee can. Seems to help keep the tunes fresh in mind.

[dorothy]

And are these discs called tuits? :wink:

[bob864]

I can usually memorize the melody of a tune pretty quickly. Maybe 2 hours for a melodic 2 part march. Getting all the grace notes perfectly takes me weeks. I also find out when I go to my lessons that I've added in grace notes (or even doublings) that aren't supposed to be there.

I had been using a brute-force method of playing the parts over and over, but my wife suggested playing around 2 measures at a time. I can usually get a 2 measure piece memorized in a few minutes, but it's short term memory. Using her method sequentially through the tune several days in a row seems to work pretty well.

Bob

[piobair]

And are these discs called tuits? :wink: :roflmao:

OH Dorothy you're still killing me.

[Hunter S]

My way is bit more Extreme, but it works- only if you have the time and patience, though.

When I have to learn a tune, I get a recording of it, a PC recording, if possible, of a really good player performing the tune. I then put in my CD player, ipod, or whatever and leave it on- nonstop, especially at nighttime. Your subconscious is much more powerful and absorbs more than your conscious mind. This will get the tune stuck in your mind.
Next, play along with it, about 10-20+ times in a row, with all of the repeats, get your fingers used to it. Take a break, get something to eat, take a power nap (with the tune playing, of course(:), or whatever. Then go back to the tune. By now, you will have identified your problem areas of the tune, and if you you've listened to it being played properly all this while you should know how it's meant to be played, even if you're not quite there yet.
Practice those areas for as long as you possibly can then go back and do it some more. Put it all together and play along with the recording if you feel comfortable. By now, you should be at least halfway decent, and at the very least, you will have the tune stuck firmly in your mind.
After about a week of this, it should be in your muscle memory as well as your brain-memory.
And if haven't noticed yet, what I'm stressing is constant repetition, repetition, repetition.

I've memorized many tunes uing this "immersion program" as I like to call it.

[burp birl]

Hunter the Piper: You are still a wee grasshopper with a sponge for a brain! Please let us know how you are doing in 30 years!

See you at the Games this weekend!

:)Jenni

[Bill Mc]

tuits are round

[Melissa Bautz]

I actually use Hunter's (the Grasshopper's) memorization method as well (and I'm in my mid 30's). I don't bother with the power nap however (kids running around my feet, not gonna happen).

I bring my "learning CD" with me wherever I go. The store, to work, everywhere. So I'm always listening to it (playing along with it).

I think it's certainly an individual phenomenon (effective tune memorization, that is).

cheers,
Melissa

[bob864]

I use Hunter's method too, and I'm older than Melissa. I put my CD in my car and listen to it over and over. I find it helps to watch the music and finger along at full speed, even when I can't get the notes -- I can always get at least a few of the notes, and I'm assured of getting them in the correct rhythm. I don't think my wife would go for listening over night though... Not unless I slept out with the dog.

Bob

[Bob Norris]

At 52 :eek: I play two bars at at time below tempo with BMG. BMG is almost in pitch to the PC so its like having a recording. I continue through the first line like this till I can play the line correctly below tempo. Then I move on to the second line the same way adding bars. I then get the first part (two lines) up to tempo. This is repeated throughout the tune. I never move past a part unless I have the previous part down. Sometimes on a difficult tune I may start with the hardest part first just so the rest of the tune is easy.

Using this method I can usually have a new tune up on the pipes in a day or two. The key is not to try and learn the whole tune at once.

My sons on the other hand (15 and 16) have learned tunes on the way to rehearsal and played them that night :cry:

As they say the old Grey matter ain't what it used to be :D

[ncpiper]

Hey Everyone,

And here I thought I just had to play it a few hundred times. :shrug:

Been putting in OT on the PC to get some tunes down. :wink:

Thanks for the tips, I'll try some tonight maybe I'll have those 2 tunes down in the next couple of days. Which will be record time for me. usually takes a couple weeks a tune for me depending on how much practice time I put in of course.

Nc

[ear plugs needed]

and there`s me thinking i`m getting the first symptons of some lack of zinc forgetful condition. after reading the posts i feel its not just me, hurray. i was under the misconception that all you regular pipers just dived into a tune and produced the goods.

thanks, i feel a lot better and it did not cost me a fortune for a shrink :confused:

[GwaiiEagle]

I find whistling tunes helps quite abit.

As an new, older piper I find if I do not play all the tunes I know regularly I can blank on them easily.

Funny how just the first couple of notes of a forgotten song is enough to get me going.

I used to rush learning a song just to hear it on the pipes filling in the right embellishments as I went on, but now I learn them right the first time and take the time to play it correctly.

I mean playing it slowly and correctly to begin with rather than going back later.

If or when I ever join a band I know I will be playing marches the way as everyone else.

[Gary Guth]

Interesting subject. We were having this discussion at band practice last night. Personally after almost 36 years of playing this instrument, I've never had a problem memorizing. Learning to play an instrument is a mechanical problem first, then it becomes a musical problem. Your brain doesn't see the music when you're playing by memory. Your brain remembers the movements of your hands. I think the biggest problem with people trying to memorize music is the fact that they aren't relaxed. Self doubt and negative self talk about your ability to memorize makes the problem worse. If you all relax keep practicing with the music and know why it's so important to you, it will happen, period. I teach a lot of people. The people who struggle the most don't practice enough, and the reason they don't practice enough is because they don't have a goal. You need to know why you are doing this. My best student, drives 2 hours each way twice a week to play the pipes. He's made a big investment in this process. He doesn't have a problem and he's 53 and been playing since last September. Go figure.

Gary

[Jamie Gracie]

My 1st teacher didn't bother teaching me to read music, and just played me the tune over and over till i got it right.

Going back to piping after a 20 year gap I find I'm hopeless at sight reading, but this tends to encourage me to memorise the tune quickly.

Kind of messed up but it seems to work ^^

[bob864]

Learning to play an instrument is a mechanical problem first, then it becomes a musical problem. Your brain doesn't see the music when you're playing by memory. Your brain remembers the movements of your hands.

There are a variety of different methods the brain can use to learn music. The kind described above is called kinesthetic. For some people, the kinesthetic method is the primary method. But there are other ways of learning, and for some people those other ways are at least as important as the kinesthetic.

For me, being able to hear the tune in my head is at least as important as rote fingerwork, and visual cues are usually a significant aspect of my learning process.

Bob

[YetaNutterPiper]

I just started another 6/8 and had it pretty well memorized in a couple of hours. I went for the learn the last line first method after listening to the tune being played off and on the day before. Best results I have had on learning a tune to date. The tune didn't present a bunch of new movements so that helped. My thought is that when technique isn't the issue then a couple of focus hours for a day or two can make it work. Of course I have kept playing the tune over and over again to make sure it is really there, but I don't look at the music anymore.

[drunkenpiper88]

I keep going over and over them. The more times you play them the more bits will stick in your head. Everyone is different, works for some people, doesnt work for others

[Heatherbelle]

If it's a tune I really like, I can learn it in no time, but if it doesn't just strike a chord with me, it takes me ages! I find listening to a new tune over and over in the car helps, as does singing along with it. And identifying repeated phrases helps too.

[Gaucho Piper]

tuits are round

More than "round" they are "Around" and it is about time that we got around (or "a round")

Maybe.....someday..... I WILL get one too. :willy:

[Gaucho Piper]

I recall that Peking Piper wrote quite extensively about memorizing tunes, and gave a lot of good ideas. :hatoff:

I once read that musicians with Parkinson's can actually play the tunes they learnt long ago WITHOUT the typical tremor !

I'm not saying it's true, does anyone know more about this?

[Thirsty Fiberweave]

I once read that musicians with Parkinson's can actually play the tunes they learnt long ago WITHOUT the typical tremor !

I'm not saying it's true, does anyone know more about this?

In high school I had a musician friend who had fairly severe Tourette's Syndrome. The only times that he did not show any effects was when he played music (keyboards) or when he was driving. Maybe it has something to do with the brain be pre-occupied by other tasks.

[Richard Mao]

I recall that Peking Piper wrote quite extensively about memorizing tunes, and gave a lot of good ideas. :hatoff:

<snipped>

hmmm... is there any interest in my resurrecting this series of articles.... plus some of my latest results/thinking from my students?

they run on a bit.... remember I'm garrulous ... so be careful what you ask for.

(the ideas expressed so far all can help)

Richard Mao, The Peking Piper ( richardmao@rocketmail.com )

What’s that piper doing up the tree? I dunno, you s’pose it’s time to
cut’im down? He stopped kickin’ a coupla minutes ago.

[tjm]

hmmm... is there any interest in my resurrecting this series of articles.... plus some of my latest results/thinking from my students?


Yes please!! Any and all advice welcomed. Memorizing tunes is killing my progress right now. The kids throwing my music around the house and biting through reeds are comparatively minor trials.

--Tim.

[W Morrison]

so be careful what you ask for.


I'll bite........every bit helps.

[texaspiper1987]

My secret to tune memorization is the PhotoReading Whole Mind System. Read more about it here (http://www.photoreading.com)!

[Adam Sanderson]

My secret to tune memorization is the PhotoReading Whole Mind System. Read more about it here (http://www.photoreading.com)!

If you don't mind me asking, Texaspiper, you've already posted twice that you can't read music. How does this system aid you, if it involves memorising written sheet music off a page?

[W Morrison]

You actually "mentally photograph" the page at 25,000 words a minute.


Seems just a bit of a stretch.

I'd still like to hear Mr. Mao be garrulous.

Mr. Mao..........................??