The Drone Party is ON!! July 19, 2008

[Randy J. Homer]

You are all cordially invited to the Great DroneTone Moondog Coronation Ball to be held at my home on July 19th, 2008[corrected by moderator according to later post]. This date is irrevocable, final and waiting to be reserved on your calendar! We will listen to as many different drone sounds as people can manage to bring with whatever their favorite chanter might be to match best. I'll have both my cocus Starcks and ebony Athertons. As many who wish to be recorded can have their sound preserved from the same sound equipment in the same conditions for comparisons sake. This is not definitive! People's set-up and abilities will naturally vary and do not speak to the true value of any particular maker. This is not scientific! It's a bunch of ordinary folks just listening, learning, and having fun!

The RULES are:

1) You must be willing to enjoy yourself.
2) On no occasion shall anyone be permitted to use my bass drone for a cricket bat, pool cue, golf club or any other such accouterment regardless of how much Scotch has been consumed (there will be numerous labels available as well as Belhaven Scottish Ale.)
3) Everyone's playing is just fine, thank you. As Dave Letterman says, "This is not a contest, merely an exhibition!"
4) There shall be NO AGENDAS other than that which is contained in Rule #1.

My address and phone number can be found in my Profile. Google Map to find me - call or email if need be. Folks can start arriving any time after lunch on Saturday. Dinner will consist of Bar-Be-Que, corn-on-the-cob, watermelon, baked beans in a cast iron kettle over an open fire and whatever else we find to add. As many as can fit in my home are welcome to stay here. Sleeping bags and pup tents are also welcome, as are campers. We can try to find additional housing in the homes of nearby pipers. And if all else fails, I live within 2 miles of six different motels at the intersection of I-76 and the Kent exit at St. Rt. 43 in NE Ohio. Breakfast the next morning is also on us. After that, you're on your own! You can stay, but we're not feedin' ya'!

We'll eat, drink, play, eat some more, play some more, drink again, play some more, etc. etc. until we are either tired of each other's noise or the neighbors beat us to it!

Please plan on coming for as short or as long as you can. And feel free to bring whoever else you know might enjoy hearing such a thing. RSVPs are not mandatory. But if you could let me know what your plans might be, we can then plan on how much food to buy and begin to arrange for housing.

See you in July!

[JFAB]

I may just make the distant trip for this. Sounds like great fun!

According to map quest I am only 7 short hours away from you :lol:

Not including the traffic through Chicago!

[Randy J. Homer]

AHHHH!!!!! I got the date wrong! It's Saturday, July 19th!!

(It was originally planned for May 31st, but too many couldn't make it then.)

See you on Saturday, July 19th!

[Shawn Husk]

This is going to be one great time! I can't wait to hear all these wonderful pipes.

I'll be bringing:

My Kron Heritage set; a Japanese made set copied from a 1910 Lawrie bagpipe; and at least one, perhaps more sets of Scottish smallpipes in the keys of A and D that I make myself.

Can't wait.

Oh yeah, I'll most likely be bringing some beer as well. Never can have enough fine imported beer. Perhaps a nice wheat ale, or some really great Belgium Lager? YEEEEEHAAAW!

Shawn

[scotchboiler]

Is there any chance this might become an annual event?

What I'd really like to see would be for you to convene such a gathering out here on the west coast. Perhaps if enough people are interested?

[Ken Fitzpatrick]

will someone be taking pictures so we can have a ganders at em. ?

for us folk back in blighty.

[Randy J. Homer]

will someone be taking pictures....

Sure! We can do that!

[Ar Soner]

There was such a meeting in Brittany two years ago near Lorient (without drinks and food unfortunately).

That was an incredible experience to listen superb old pipes and their copies in plastic (Duncan McD, Glen... e.g.).
I never had such an opportunity before to compare drone sounds.

How happy I would be with you that day !

Yes, don't forget the pictures. Thank you.

[JFAB]

There was such a meeting in Brittany two years ago near Lorient (without drinks and food unfortunately).

That was an incredible experience to listen superb old pipes and their copies in plastic (Duncan McD, Glen... e.g.).
I never had such an opportunity before to compare drone sounds.

How happy I would be with you that day !

Yes, don't forget the pictures. Thank you.



Yann, Come to Chicago and then we'll drive to Ohio!

[David Marshall]

I am guessing you have very nice and understanding neighbors!!

Sounds like a fun day! Kind of like Woodstock for bagpipes!

[Kevin Palm]

I am SO there!!!! :)

I'll be bringing my vintage 2000 Gibsons with Selbie reeds, Gibson chanter, and Warnock chanter reed!!

Cheers,
Kevin

[John Henderson]

Kind of like Woodstock for bagpipes!

"I understand the brown haggis is not so good." :smokin:

[kingric]

There was such a meeting in Brittany two years ago near Lorient (without drinks and food unfortunately).

That was an incredible experience to listen superb old pipes and their copies in plastic (Duncan McD, Glen... e.g.).
I never had such an opportunity before to compare drone sounds.

How happy I would be with you that day !

Yes, don't forget the pictures. Thank you.

Are there any plans to have another such meeting in the future? I'd be very interested in attending. Richard

[Shawn Husk]

I have a great digital camera and plan on lots of pics, mostly of pipes of course!!!! haha.......

Shawn

[kingric]

Please post some of your pictures! I actually meant the gathering near Lorient that Yann mentioned, though. It's closer to my neck of the woods.

[Ar Soner]

Richard,

for sure, Lorient would be easier for you than Ohio...

As far as I know no other meeting that kind is planned.
Though, many pipers here would appreciate another edition of such an event.
Some, who seemmed not to see any interest in such a meeting, then regreted they had not attended that one.
No doubt,there will be another one some day. I will let you know.

I have no picture of that meeting but can try to find some.

Joel, I just borrow a rowing boat and let you know when I am about to land in Chicago. Should be in time if I start before this week end...

Y.

[Ar Soner]

Could those who will attend this party tell us about their instruments please ?

Make the others dream !

[Shawn Husk]

I'm planning on taking my Kron Heritage pipes and my Japanese made 1910 Lawrie reproductions.

Two classic old bores with classic sounds.

Shawn

[JFAB]

Joel, I just borrow a rowing boat and let you know when I am about to land in Chicago. Should be in time if I start before this week end...Y.

Yann, if you arrive on the East Coast via the Atlantic we have several channels that you could take through New York to lake Erie and eventually to lake Michigan, after that it would be smooth sailing to the gold coast of Chicago. I however think it would easier to take an airplane :thumb:

Oh yes of course, I will be taking my ABW Atherton MacDougalls to Randy's if I am able to go, as I have retired my Sinclairs (Too much past damage).

[Curt]

If I can get away and spend the $ on fuel I could bring my MacDougalls and a set of Sinclairs to have a listen to. Sounds like fun.

Curt

[kingric]

Thanks, Yann. Good luck with your rowing.

Richard

[Ar Soner]

Here is one set we could hear at that meeting :

http://i45.photobucket.com/albums/f65/dexiosis/Photo569.jpg

This is a plastic copy of D. McD.
We could listen to the original as well, no difference at all.

Y.

[carolinapipes]

HHMMM, those don't look anything like the set I have and not like the original set pictured on Dave's website. The stocks look larger and the tenor bottoms have a taper to them that my set does not have. Different year maybe?

[Ar Soner]

The design changed with time of course.

[kingric]

Yann, who makes the plastic D McD copies?

[Ar Soner]

Richard,

check your PM.

Y.

[Randy J. Homer]

We had a drone party preview today and it was wonderful! Between the four of us there, we had a 1900 cocus Starck, a 2008 ebony Atherton MacDougall reproduction, a 1920's ebony silver and ivory Robertson, a 1954 silver and ivory Sinclair, a 1995 half-silver Naill, a 1995 half-silver Kron Standard, a 2005 Kron Heritage and a 2008 set from Doug MacPherson in Mgurere wood with boxwood mounts. Eight glorious sets! And each one was absolutely wonderful and clearly distinctive in it's unique sound.

We would each play our own, then play another's - we'd swap chanters and reeds to experiment with sound, talk about set-up, eat, drink - had a great time!

We also previewed the single malts (heh heh heh!) So far, I've bought ahead another 12 year old Bowmore (today's selection,) a 15 year old Glenfiddich, a 12 year old Balvenie, a 16 year old Nadurra from Glenlivet, and a 10 year old Talisker. And I have a case of Belhaven Scottish Ale on order. If you're not familiar with Nadurra, its 120 proof natural cask strength that tastes nothing like the other Glenlivets! If you know you're coming and would like something else, just say so. I'll do my best to get it!

Please do your best to come to my place on July 19th. We're bound to have a blast! And remember, NO AGENDAS other than to enjoy ourselves! Email or PM for contact info and/or maps and directions. RSVPs aren't mandatory. But if possible, let me know whether you're coming so we can russell up enough food. See you there!
:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

[thebluebeetroot]

Wow, that sounds awesome.
Wish I was there. I'd love to add my old Hendersons to the mix. Are you going to record anything Randy? Would be great for us below the equator to hear some!! My eyes are green with envy.

[Randy J. Homer]

Yeah, we hope to record as many as are willing. Just don't take it to be anything definitive or scientific. But we'll post what we can get.

[Shawn Husk]

Yes, today was a very great day. What an amazing selection of pipes we had to choose from.

It was great to finally get my hands on a set of Robertsons. I now see why people love them so much. Great pipe! Doug MacPherson's pipes are really excellent as well. Very good blend and great tone.

It was a foreshadowing of things to come (7/19/08). It will be a blast!

Shawn

[thebluebeetroot]

Cool,
I think most people on here are open minded and sensible enough to know that we all aren't Gordon Walkers or the like. Would be great to hear some.

[Dr D]

Hey! I really like the idea of posted recordings. Please do that!

Video, too, of course, would be great. And most camcorders have very good microphones so the audio quality accompanying most video is quite good.

Great idea! Extra work, of course. But it will be greatly appreciated and enjoyed!

[Thom Lenahan]

Not asking for which is/was better,but,were any opinions/feelings changed or re-enforced about any of the pipes that you all had a chance to sample as compared to what believed previously?...does that make sense???

[Shawn Husk]

I observed the following:

Randy's MacDougalls carried very well outside, which to me was a little of a surprise because of their overall mellow character. But they have a very good projection in the open air. This was the first time they'd been played outside.

Also, Doug MacPhersons pipes have an excellent tone. There was a set in Mgurure wood and they looked lovely, excellent combing and beading, aesthetically pleasing and a wonderful unified sound. Good bass and excellent tenors well matched. I was very happy to hear and play this set. Very impressed.

My curiosity over Robertsons was finally satisfied. I had always heard nothing but good things about Robertson drones and I have to say these pipes were absolutely excellent in every way. They were from the 1920's and I took bore measurements and I was astounded at how stable the wood had remained after all these years. The bores were very circular. Almost no elongation or changes (swelling/shrinkage) in the bores. You test this by taking readings at about 8 points in each of the bores and comparing them to one another. Some pipes will shift a lot. Not enough to tell with hemping but with a mic all is revealed. Anyway, a very stable bagpipe and excellent tone.

One of the biggest things I've learned recently about bagpipes and tone is this:

Blow steady and have a well tuned and balanced instrument and any bagpipe will sound excellent in it's own unique way.

Shawn

[Randy J. Homer]

Sure Thom, I can add a few notes:

One thing that unusually impressed me from swapping around was the need for a well-balanced chanter and reed that matched the kind of sound from the drones in order to bring out their best qualities.

The Starcks actually sounded pretty good with the MacPherson chanter! Very brilliant tone with lots of projection from the tenors. I used an Andre Duatone to beef up the bass more than it otherwise would have.

The Robertson was absolutely delightful! The drone sound was as full as a good old Henderson, but was not so bass dominant. The blend from tenors to bass was noticably more balanced for timbre and volume. When paired with a brand new Sinclair chanter, this baby sang with the voice of angels!

The Sinclairs were also well blended, but were a bit smoother than the Robertsons and blended well with a Medallist chanter. These two were the most sublime and would probably meet with the widest approval for sound on this given day.

The Atherton MacDougalls were set up with solo Rockets which were quieter and sweeter. They were the most seamless drones with a very unified sound played with a Medalliist and a Colin Maclellan reed which is very clear and sweet tone. What surprised me most was how little they suffered from the transition to outdooors. I had not played them outside yet, and expected them to lose something when played in the wide open over grass, especially from the bass. But even though they were the most mellow indoors, they didn't really diminish any amount to speak of when moved outdoors. They still sounded full and round and carried well. But they were still very mellow and would be enjoyed only if you liked that kind of sweet solo sound. I'm curious how big it can get with stronger reeds.

The surprise of the day (for me at least) was the MacPhersons! They were probably the second-most unified sound to the Athertons, but with a harder edge on the tone - not really raspy, but not as sweet. With an early McCallum chanter (pre-oval holes) it was a delight to play and a gem to listen to! They tuned very quickly and could easily be heard locking in. They went way UP in my estimation!

The Naills didn't surprise me. They were beautifully made and lovely to hear in better hands than mine. But I had trouble finding just the right blowing strength to bring everything in tune. When they were on, they sang! But they didn't have a very wide tuning range and weren't very forgiving of old duffs like me.

The Kron Standards surprised me in how little they resembled Glen profiles, but still resembled Glen tone. They were old enough they could only have been made by Charley and had excellent details with unusual proportions. The concave at the bottom drone joints swept in very thin! Nor were the tops as tall as you'd expect from Glen. But the sound was still old Edinburgh with a tenor-dominant high overtone ring. The bass was sort of background and probably would have suffered outside (we didn't take this one outdoors.)

But the Kron Heritage blew us away! It was definitely the loudest! That was partly because of the Henderson specs used. And partly because it was paired with a McC2 that was absolutely brilliant. But mostly, it was because Shawn Husk can blow stronger and steadier than any of us others there! He had it set up so that it wouldn't be my favorite solo instument indoors. But outside, whoa mama! It was a recital quality offering! (The guy can play!)

Those are some of my first impressions. Hope Oaks and Shawn McDaniel from Indiana and Shawn Husk from Warren, Ohio were also there and might have other thoughts as well.

[Thom Lenahan]

Shawn and Randy,

thanks for the lowdown on these sets.Good info and impressions,I hope the others will chime in as well to get their opinions.Good to hear well thought out analysis of a variety of,what sounds like,impressive instruments!I hope your July get together will be even more fruitful.....

[Shawn McDaniel]

First of all I would like to thank Randy for his hospitality. He is a gracious host and goes out of his way to make you feel welcome. Thanks Randy!

I brought my set of MacPherson pipes which were set up with Mark Lee Rocket Reeds and a 2004 ABW McCallum chanter and my set of 1995 Kron Standards with a set of Rocket Reeds and played Shawn's ABW Shepherd MK II chanter. I have been looking for a chanter to match up to my Kron Standard's and the Shepherd Mk II seems to fit the bill. Hope's Kron Medalist also sounds very nice with them. I find the 2004 ABW McCallum I have to be a bit overpowering for this particular set of pipes. However, it matches wonderfully with my set of MacPhersons.

I was very eager to try Randy's ebony Atherton MacDougalls and they were a very impressive pipe. As Shawn and Randy has mentioned, they were a very smooth, seamless sound and easily locked in with his medalist chanter. They were extremely steady and very air efficient. They reminded me a bit of my MacPhersons. The craftsmanship of Randy's Athertons was incredible. I really liked his pipe a great deal. It will be a popular pipe to play on June 19th. Dave Athertons work is top-notch.

Shawn's 2005 Kron Heritage had a big full Henderson sound and he played them very well. They blended very well with his McCallum MCC2 and were by far the biggest sound of the day. Shawn had them set up with spitfire drone reeds and a Higgins reed. The Kron Heritage is an excellent pipe for outdoor competitions and after hearing them I regret selling my old set. We did not have the opportunity to listen to Shawn's set of 1910 Lawrie reproductions but they were a nice looking set of pipes.

Hope's Robertson's and Sinclairs were both incredible and I always have a hard time choosing between the two. The Robertsons and Sinclairs are both very smooth, well blended pipes and both are very air efficient and enjoyable to play. Hope's ABW Sinclair chanter is very nice and blends perfectly with her Robertson drones.

It was a fun day and I encourage anyone who can make it on June 19th to attend.

[pipeobsessed]

I don't have alot to add except that I agree totally with Shawn, Randy, and Indy Shawn's opinions and observations about the various pipes.

Randy was a wonderful host, and I would heartily recommend that everyone who can attend the drone party on 7/19.

It was a perfect day for any piper to play all of those great sets and enjoy one another's company.

Also, Ohio Shawn was on the money when he mentioned the fact that if you get the right chanter, reed, and drones together it makes a real difference, lastly that the steady blowing and tone will bring out the individual beauty of each pipe.

I'm also thankful to the Dunsire forum in that we all met one another here and it gave us a chance to have some hands on fun and learning through experience.

Thanks also to Ohio Shawn for tying in the hide bag to my Robertsons, the difference it made was positive and noticeable immediately.

Indy Shawn rode in the car with me for over 10 hours, which officially qualifies him for sainthood. :)

[Sean A. McCartney]

Man, am I soooo jealous!!! Have one for me next time!

[Shawn McDaniel]

Sorry, The date of the Drone party is SATURDAY, JULY 19th and not June 19th. Randy might have had an unexpected guest. Sorry about that error. Thanks Shawn for pointing that out!

[Thom Lenahan]

Shawn M.,

It is nice to hear such good impressions of your MacPhersons.I had to search for your post with the pictures of your set.I still love the look of the mgurure/boxwood combination....nice! :thumb:

[Shawn Husk]

Shawn McDaniel's MacPhersons were very impressive pipes to say the least. Very well made, good combing and beading, beautiful wood and the boxwood looked great as well. Excellent tone. Nice blend and a big sound overall.

Shawn

[Dieppe42]

Randy,


If it wasn't a 36 hour drive, I'd be there, just to hear everybody else.

So raise a hunk of watermelon for me!

We do want to see the Youtube or recordings!


Philip

[Sirpipesalot]

This sounds like a very cool event, if the wife and the pocketbook agree I would love to come down with my Inveran Inv3s.

[Randy J. Homer]

Inverans would be GREAT!! Do your best to come - you'll be very welcome!

[Kevin Palm]

Geez, I'm beginning to feel all bland vanilla, bringing my standard Gibsons to the party.... :sleep:

Maybe I should add some Christmas lights to my drones!! :woot:

[pancelticpiper]

I'm really enjoying this thread, as it's allowing me to vicariously experience some pipes I've never heard.

It got me to thinking about the pipe situation here in Southern California. Within an hour's drive of my home there's a G1 band, a G2 band, two G3 bands, and several G4 bands, not to mention non-competitive bands like firefighter bands etc.
That's a lot of pipes.
But everyone seems to be playing the same makes.
Of the new pipes being played in bands here, there are scores of McCallums and Naills, a handful of Gibsons, and that's about it.
I know of only one person playing Dunbars in a band (me), only one person playing MacLellans, two Krons, and a few Pettigrews.
There are loads of current makers whose work I've never seen in person: Crisler, Cushing, Walsh (GHB), Atherton, Ian Murray, Strathmore, Doug MacPherson, Inveran, the list could go on.
I think it's sort of odd, that so many piper are playing so few makers, and so many other makers are completely unknown.
Of course there are quite a few pipers playing "classic" pipes such as Henderson, Lawrie, Robertson, and that maker that straddles the classic and modern, Sinclair. And there are a number of old Hardies around.

I have a set of Doug MacPhersons coming soon: it will be the first time I've seen or heard a set.

[Thom Lenahan]

"I have a set of Doug MacPhersons coming soon: it will be the first time I've seen or heard a set."

So,tell us....what type of wood,mounts,etc.......!

[pancelticpiper]

Here they are:
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/pancelticpiper/macpherson1.jpg
http://i168.photobucket.com/albums/u196/pancelticpiper/macpherson2.jpg
Sorry no exotic wood or mounts or shapes.
I was planning to get a set made of Mopane or Mgurure.
But this set came up on Ebay cheap so I bought it.

[Randy J. Homer]

Of the new pipes being played in bands here, there are scores of McCallums and Naills....

I think that's from a combination of factors....Good marketing, reputation, etc...But also, it's just shear numbers. MacCallum can make as many as 40 sets per week, Naill can make about 15 to 20 per week. Kron makes about 50 per year (maybe less now that Atherton is no longer there.) And Atherton is making about 30 per year! (I don't know for sure about the others.) It seems reasonable to expect that you'd see more MacCallums and Naills!

I'm anxious to hear your thoughts on your MacPhersons! I'm betting that you'll be pleased!

[Thom Lenahan]

Ooh,very nice! Let us know how you like them......

[Troy Jesse]

Here they are:
Sorry no exotic wood or mounts or shapes.
I was planning to get a set made of Mopane or Mgurure.
But this set came up on Ebay cheap so I bought it.

Glad to see a familiar face got these......

I can't afford it.... glad I couldn't bid the price up for ya....

[pancelticpiper]

About the numbers of different makes here, I don't think it's so much how many sets a maker makes per year, but what makes leading pipers and teachers are playing or recommending, and which makes shops are selling.
A number of top players in the area are playing McCallums, and the only real piping supply shop mainly sells them. Kenny MacLeod plays in the LA Scots, which has an impact I think.
When people see McCallums being played at the highest level, it has influence.
Some of the teachers in the area recommend Naills. One teacher (at least) recommends Krons. This too has an impact.

But the bottom line is, if we had a "drone listening party" around here, and 42 people showed up, it might be 20 sets of McCallums, 20 sets of Naills, a Gibson, and a Kron!
(Actually I'd love to hear well set-up McCallums, Naills, Krons, and Gibsons played side-by-side, along with some "classic" pipes.)

[Randy J. Homer]

I know what you mean. I think "side by side" is the key. So long as everyone understands that it's not about "to hear which is better." You may come away from it with a better idea of what you prefer. But there are as many preferences as there are people and makes. That's OK!

Hearing the same makes but with their own subtle differences from reeding and set-up can be even more eye-opening. What I'm hoping for most is that people get to hear their own brand preference played well with a diferent set-up so they pick up some pointers on how to get their own pipes to sound different. I'd like to see such a laid-back atmosphere with enough available time that people can just freely share ideas and informally learn about makes makes good sound - not just sound 'types.'

I know of at least one 1930's silver/ivory Henderson and one 1890s cocus Glen that will be there. I'm hoping (I mean i'm trying, I'm really trying here!) to get an original ebony MacDougall there for everyone to hear and look over themselves. As many as can bring classic pipes, please do!

And if you make it from California, I'll look after your housing!

[Jim Sloan]

[quote=Randy J. Homer]I You may come away from it with a better idea of what you prefer. But there are as many preferences as there are people and makes.


----------------------------------

:willy:

So many pipes, chanters and reeds, so little time!

:willy:

Jim

[Randy J. Homer]

I should add this while I'm thinking of it:
When people see McCallums being played at the highest level, it has influence.
Of course it does! That's why it makes such good business sense for McCallum to give so many of their pipes to top and highly visible pipers! I'm not speaking ill, mind you. I'm sure those folks wouldn't take them if they wouldn't have them. The pipe has to be worthy enough for that to work. But it is a part of marketing that other good makers simply cannot afford. It doesn't make others lesser just for that reason alone. And there are still plenty of people playing at the highest level with classic pipes and other new ones as well! Some guys out west were at Bellingham and noticed that Terry and Jack Lee and Jori Chisholm were playing Atherton MacDougall reproductions. I guess there's supposed to be about 5 of those in SFU now with more forthcoming. I think that's cool, because that's the make and sound 'type' that I really like! It all goes into a wonderful mosaic and variety that's worth celebrating!

[Alex Anderson]

You don't think Tiger Woods buys his clubs, do you? I'm sure they pay him too. And they develop them just for him. Good business and cheap advertising. You can find celebrity or pro endorsements in almost any substantial consumer driven industry. No surprise there.

Alex