Playing Well With Others

[John Blunt]

Good evening, everybody:

I've got a question for you. What techniques do you use to blend in playing in a band-type situation? As background, I have been playing about five years as a solo player, but in the last couple of months I have been sitting in with our local pipe band practices. Here's my problem: When we get in the circle and play, I begin with a whole set of wrong behaviors. I start listening to the others and my fingers stop, I overblow, my mine is blank and it's the pits. I know the tunes, but for the life of me I turn into a crappy player and it's humiliating. I'm not the best in the circle, but I can keep up when I am practicing alone. It's getting into my head and I would love to hear about any techniques or drills that might be of use to me. That's my rant for now. Any ideas?

JMB

[Country Strathspey]

do you ever play with CD's?

you might try a tape recorder and record them at practice, so you can practice at home.

or maybe get together with one or two other pipers and practice as a smaller group.

[Piper_06]

You have to change from listening to the beat in your head to the one from the bass drum. Also watch the PM's foot. They usually keep time with their foot, and it will give you the beat.

The previous suggestion is get with another player or two during warm up to get used to following along with someone else's tempo or expression.

Finger tension may also have something to do with this. You tighten up because you are trying so hard to fit in. Don't worry, even my instructor makes an occasion but very rare mistake in a tune.

Good luck and remember have fun with this, it is our hobby too.

[Amy McG]

It takes a little time to get used to all the distractions around you. You overblow because you can't hear yourself. You make mistakes because the people next to you perhaps make mistakes and it throws you off. Just relax and roll with it. Everyone there knows that it takes a little work to get used to playing with a group. Just keep showing up and giving it your best, it will work out.

[pancelticpiper]

Amy is right on, I think.
It takes a lot of focus to stay tight with the Pipe Major regardless of what may be happening on either side of you in the circle.
I find that I have memory lapses in the circle that I never do when playing alone. So you really have to have the tunes off, so that you can stick to the tune no matter what distractions come up.
About blowing, you have to be able to blow steady by feel rather than by sound as you can when you're playing solo.
Playing pipes in the circle is a very different skill-set than playing solo: you're blowing by feel, and fingering by sight, attempting to have your fingers in perfect sync with the Pipe Major's fingers. At some point you'll hit a breakthrough and be able to let the Pipe Major's fingers control your own. It's a funny thing, when you can let go of your control and let your fingers be guided by another.
Perhaps the Pipe Major can make a DVD or CD-ROM of him playing the tunes with the camera showing a closeup of his fingers. Practicing to that will really help.

[David Corbett]

how about, identifying the 1 or 2 best "band" players in the circle (usually the ones on either side of the PM), and getting with just that one or two persons, but instead of the "band tunes". start with some simple exercises that you both have memorized, or very very simple tunes, like Scots Wa Hae, Sky boat, Amazing Grace.

Remember, it's all about getting in unison with the group. Same tunes, same timing, same embelishment execution.

Practice synchronizing on very slow, very easy stuff instead of hornpipes and reels. Heck, maybe do this in the middle of an elementary school recess, to see how well you can tune out distractions. ok, maybe that's a bad idea.

David.

[Bill Adam]

I'm sure is not the situation with you, but I had a cawe similar to this with our band.

A piper like yourself who solos a lot just could not keep in sync with the band. After a couple weeks, before practice started on enight, I asked him to play a couple of tunes solo. His tempos we a lot faster than ours and he did not play a tune with a steady beat. This was his "interpretation" was his explaination.

He could not start the pipes without grabbing the bass drone and pulling it up to position, fill the bag while holding the drone and then punching the bag to start the drones and chanter. By that time we had already started the tune.

After a couple weeks of trying to adapt, we both agreed that playing in a band was not for him. He is happy with his solos and his style.

[Bruce Wright]

how about, identifying the 1 or 2 best "band" players in the circle (usually the ones on either side of the PM)

Personally I don't feel that it usually works well in a band to have the best "band" players on either side of the P/M. You probably want them next to (or at least near) the drum line, so that they can make an "anchor" for the less experienced players between them and the P/M. And between those "anchor" players and the P/M you probably want to alternate more and less experienced players so that you don't have two less experienced players next to each other. That seems to keep everyone on a more even keel, so to speak.

The way we usually try to assign positions in the competition circle, the P/M is on the front right, P/S front left, and the two "anchor" players at the two rear corners in the last rank of pipes just ahead of the drummers. The player(s) inside that square (often but not necessarily less experienced than the ones on the outside) march diagonally forward to positions between the pipers beside and diagonally ahead of them on the outside of the square (don't invade the front rank!!). This pretty much naturally sets up the situation outlined above. If your band isn't a competition band, the same approach should still work since this is about keeping the band playing together rather than competition as such.

Bruce

[OKiepiper2]

Bruce hit pretty well on position. The only thing I would add is that in some competition bands I've been in, being assigned next to the PM is like having the dunce hat on. He not only wants to listen to you, but wants you where you can hear well too.

The concept I think of in the circle is two fold. First, if I can hear myself, I'm off, I should be blending so well, that as an individual my sound cannot be heard by myself of anyone else. Once there you ride the wave. It's like being carried along - the sum total is greater than the individual parts. Some call it the zone. Doesn't really matter what you call it - its euphoria when you get there and can stay.

[Bruce Wright]

The only thing I would add is that in some competition bands I've been in, being assigned next to the PM is like having the dunce hat on.

:lol:. I remember one time when I put someone in the middle of the square for a parade, and he was very insulted knowing that I would often do that for the less experienced pipers. But my motivation was actually much simpler - we were having some troubles with his pipes that day, and I didn't want him on the outside where they could be heard more easily. Had a hard time convincing him of that though. :shrug:

Bruce

[Richard Mao]

....

After a couple weeks of trying to adapt, we both agreed that playing in a band was not for him. He is happy with his solos and his style.

This is a sad experience...

Given the originator of this thread has this problem...do not try to learn it by osmosis at a couple of band practices.... where the p/m's attention is on the band as a whole.... not you and your specific problems... and trying to figure out what will work for you...

Instead, I would look to sit about a half dozen sessions with an instructor (preferably one who plays with this band.... possibly the p/m if he/she has time). (these lessons are not necessary for all new band members.... but if you have a problem... here is an approach)

There are several different aspects to this problem... that I would approach .... I would start one-on-one...

First.... playing in "the groove".... play by memory the band setting of various tunes with the instructor/pipe major.... Practice chanters at first if necessary... and play the tunes together....

BUT you are now needing to play in ensemble.... not interpreting on your own.... you need to watch the leader's fingers.... as if they were a projecting mirror... you need to get the feel of how the leader is playing.... treat his/her fingering as the groove /stream you are submerging / merging your playing into... you want it to sound like one large bagpipe.

anticipating his/her notes hitting the beat.... and be totally accepting.... reflecting of his/her lengths (expression) of notes...

====

pick a tune not in your repertoire.... totally have the instructor teach it to you.... (not that you are deficient in technique).... in execution and INTERPRETATION/expression.

If after you learn this tune this way.... you still have problems.... you are fighting the ensemble too hard.

==========

after practice chanters.... go with pipes one on one with the instructor.... WATCH FINGERS.... treat the movements as a "projecting" mirror.... make your fingers move in synchronization with the "mirror"...

next stage have two solid band members flank you and the p/m in front of you.... and play the tunes.... if you've surrounded yourself with the right sound, and you can't hear your pipes/chanter melody.... and your fingers seem to be just floating.... you've achieved your goal.

=====

If necessary.... take strike-in lessons from the pipe major... and cut-off protocol/lessons with the pipe major.... establish clean blowing cut-offs for each set. by rote/mechanics at first.... then by experience and intent.

====

Peking Piper's Zen-like Observation:

You often have to FAIL.... to succeed.

Often there are stages you go through... the pros get through them very quickly... almost don't notice any big problem.

First time learning the tune on the practice chanter or whatever instrument you learn tunes on.

Then the tune will give you fits and have to be learned a second time on the big pipes .... because you have to get the blowing, coordination, struggling with the octopus physical aspects mastered while the new finger patterns are not yet solid.

Third.... the first time you play the tune in front of any formal audience (e.g. your critiqueing instructor)... you'll probably fall apart and have to relearn the tune "under performance pressure."

Fourth... the first time you play the tune in ensemble/band.... because you are "marching to a different drummer" and maybe a tempo you are not used to... and a different emPHAsis on different sylLables expression-wise. (I don't know if setting a metronome to a radically different tempo than you are used to playing is a useful way to add variable control to your fingering)

Fifth... the first time you play the tune on the march... you may need to relearn the tune/coordination.... strike-in, starting marching in tempo.

The object of the game is to get through these mini-"failures" hiccups in the least high risk/profile/embarrassing situation possible... find a friendly audience for your first "public" performance, add ensemble and marching mastery at a band practice... and so on...

best wishes

Richard Mao, The Peking Piper ( richardmao@rocketmail.com )

You don’t have to be crazy to play bagpipes. We’ll train you…

[Richard Mao]

Bruce hit pretty well on position. The only thing I would add is that in some competition bands I've been in, being assigned next to the PM is like having the dunce hat on. He not only wants to listen to you, but wants you where you can hear well too.

The concept I think of in the circle is .....




IN A PRACTICE SESSION... for my street band... my goal in a circle is NOT just to rehearse the sets in simulated concert settings...

it is to go through tunes to identify to the pipers and drummers where they have to practice at home to develop better unison at target tempos...

we repeat tunes/phrases as necessary...

If I observe a newbie having troubles fingering/recovering... I will walk over to that piper.... either beside him/her or in front so that the piper can observe my fingering and get back in the groove.... SUPPORT is the idea.... not singling out errors. Bagpipes without guilt!

Then the next time through I might bring the tempo down on purpose.... UNISON/confidence is more important to me than speed... as long as it doesn't get funereal... Scotland the Brave at a Stately tempo ... in unison...

is better than Scotland the Brave at a brisk tempo.... in cacaphony...

Slow but musical is still enjoyable to general audiences.

another example... I'll shift a newbie away from the piper(s) playing harmony.... if getting away from different sounds/fingering will help him/her not get confused and lost...

Think past just playing in a band... Think of what you would do IN PRACTICE SESSIONS to support/advance the goal of this thread.... identifying how better to achieve Playing Well With Others.

The newbie piper/joining member (no matter how experienced) should not feel alone.... should not feel that all the changes have to be come up with on his/her own... If the band is a family....the band shares responsibility and contributes its support... it takes a family to successfully adopt/adapt a newbie.

cheers

Richard Mao, The Peking Piper ( richardmao@rocketmail.com )

You don’t have to be crazy to play bagpipes. We’ll train you…

[Bruce Wright]

another example... I'll shift a newbie away from the piper(s) playing harmony.... if getting away from different sounds/fingering will help him/her not get confused and lost...

This is good advice. You might even consider not playing harmonies the first few times a new piper is playing with the band, if it's likely to get them confused. Likewise it is often a good idea for the P/M not to play harmony unless the rest of the band is pretty comfortable with that (which would cut out a lot of street bands and lower grade competitive bands).

IN A PRACTICE SESSION... for my street band... my goal in a circle is NOT just to rehearse the sets in simulated concert settings...

it is to go through tunes to identify to the pipers and drummers where they have to practice at home to develop better unison at target tempos...

we repeat tunes/phrases as necessary...

Richard - For what it's worth the NCSU Grade 3 band isn't really all that different from what you describe here (and in the rest of your post). The tunes may be a bit harder, and the pipers may have to be a bit better individually in order to be in the circle, but there are always things that need to be improved. For example we often play through just the Strath or just the Reel of our MSR (or even just a single part of one of the tunes), sometimes slower than our eventual target tempo, to try to improve our expression and/or unison. The idea isn't to put anyone on the spot but to improve the overall sound of the band.

Bruce

[Bruce Wright]

This is a sad experience...

Given the originator of this thread has this problem...do not try to learn it by osmosis at a couple of band practices.... where the p/m's attention is on the band as a whole

At the NCSU Pipes & Drums we have both a Grade 4 and a Grade 3 band. The Grade 4 has both a "regular" circle who can be expected to play both the "street" tunes and the "competition" tunes, and a "learner" circle who are mostly working on the "street" tunes, with maybe a few of them starting on the "competition" tunes. ("Concert" tunes might also include easy tunes - Amazing Grace, Highland Cathedral - that everyone could play, as well as some harder music played mostly by the "competition" players but which we don't use for competitions). At some times the "learner's circle" has effectively functioned as a separate Grade 5 band.

I'm generally in charge of working with the "learner" circle. We use the "learner" circle as a way of easing new pipers into the circle, and try to have some individual or small group sessions from time to time to help those who are having trouble getting the hang of playing with the group. I try to work with them both collectively and individually on issues like strike-ins, cutoffs, playing together, etc. Often after an hour or so of that we'll join the two groups together and play our common repertoire unless the more advanced group is getting ready for a big event that won't be involving the novice circle. If the whole band is going to be playing in a parade we may spend the entire practice with both groups playing and marching together.

If you have enough pipers at a sufficient level to make good instructors that you are able to split the band up like that it can be very useful - you can give much more individualized attention to the newbie players who are having problems, going over things that will be obvious to the experienced pipers without having to worry that you're taking valuable time away from getting ready for the next performance, whether it's a competition, a parade, or a concert.

I don't see any reason why that shouldn't work for street bands as well, at least the larger and more established ones.

Bruce

[drivebypiper]

I'm going out on a bit of a limb here, since I don't know all the background to the problem, but here are a couple of thoughts.

When first started playing in the circle, I was playing a pretty soft reed (because I was a newbie). Because of this I had the hardest time hearing myself, since all the other pipers were playing louder reeds. Things got easier as I got more comfortable with the tunes, but also when I was able to blow a reed of a similar strength to the others'.

Somewhat related to this, when I started wearing earplugs I discovered that I could hear myself quite a bit better than the pipers around me. (I assume this is because of the inverse square relationship.) This meant I could adjust my tempo and timing more easily to fit the group.

I will also say that my years of singing in choirs has also helped: knowing how to unison sing translates pretty well to piping for me.

[bob864]

Assuming the band plays steady, practice with a metronome.

If the band doesn't play steady, then get a recording of them, and practice with that.

If they play something with a different rhythm than what you're used to, then every time you get off their rhythm, you'll hear it, and you'll focus on having made a misake, which will make you make more mistakes.

Bob