Kron's Drones

[Don Robertson]

Anyone have problems with tuning Krons to the rest of their band ? We have one piper who bought a set and can't get them to tune properly. Our band tunes low A at 472, which I wouldn't think would be a problem. They are lovely pipes though, and I have nothing against Mr Krons workmanship, just this one wonky problem we're having in band. Are there any specific drone reeds that work better than others ?

[iunderwood]

472 is awfully low these days.

[kingric]

Never had a problem tuning my Kron Heritage drones to others. Rockets work particularly well, as has been observed countless times here. But although I far prefer the Rockets to the other synth reeds (for tone, stability and air efficiency), my Krons were basically omniverous; they'd take any reed I threw at them. I never had any problems with the other reeds I tried, such as Balance Tones, Spitfires, and Henderson Harmonics. I recently bought another Kron Heritage set and it is coming set up with Crozier cane bass and Canning tenors. Haven't had a chance to try it yet, but this setup was recommended by a top piper.

You didn't say whether the piper in your band has "standard" or Heritage Krons. I haven't played standard Krons, my comments were on the Heritage version which has somewhat different dimensions than the standard version. But I don't recall anyone mentioning the type of problem you're having with regard to Kron standards.

What kind of reeds is the piper in your band using? Are his drone tops tuning at the appropriate places on the pins? Have you tried swapping somebody else's reeds into the Kron drones to see if there's just a problem with the reeds the piper is using at present?

Cheers,

Richard

[Jim Sloan]

Check all the other Drones!

:)

Jim

[kingric]

I also saw your other post about a weak blower in the band, in the beginner/intermediate forum. Is this the same piper? If so, perhaps the piper is an unsteady blower. Maybe it would be useful to have an experienced steady player try out the pipes.

Richard

[Don Robertson]

I also saw your other post about a weak blower in the band, in the beginner/intermediate forum. Is this the same piper? If so, perhaps the piper is an unsteady blower. Maybe it would be useful to have an experienced steady player try out the pipes.

Richard
Yes, it is the same person, and the pipes as I understand it, are the regular Krons. And we chose the 472 range based on Jim McGillivray's article on tuneing on his web site.

[kingric]

I don't have any experience with the standard Krons, but Mark Lee has sung their praises numerous times for their steadiness and efficiency (he says the Krone standards perform even better than the Krone Heritage drones). I'd try swapping out the reeds and let some other players try the Krons and see what happens.

[countrypiper]

472 is awfully low these days.

Is this general case in the US - we tune to 470 - and I don't think we're too far off the majority of bands in Australia.

[PMT]

We are tuning near 480, 470 is very low and I think you will find most of the higher graded Australian bands are well above that.

I think you will find this problem with the Kron's to be a reeding and set up issue rather than a bagpipe one.

I have found that the Rockets I have are quite low pitched and ezeedrones and Croziers have a huge tuning range. Canning now makes a lower pitched version of his reed also and they are pretty much plug and play.

Hope this helps.

[Bob Lyman_dup1]

Is it all three, just the bass or just the tenor?

I play a set of Kron Standards with Rockets, but had EZ's before that. The only issue I've seen has been with the bass drone and the upper tuning pin having been set too low on the pin. It needs to be set so the at least a 1/16th of an inch of hemp is showing as this helps stabilize the sound through it.

Mark Lee could better explain the specific dynamics at work here.

[pancelticpiper]

...problems with tuning Krons to the rest of their band...

...can't get them to tune properly...

...wonky problem...


A diagnosis would require a much less vague description of the problem, I feel.

Is the problem that the drones are too high on the pins when tuned to that pitch?

Or are the drones unstable at that pitch?

Just what is the exact problem?

There is a thing that happens sometimes on drones, where a drone just doesn't want to play at a certain pitch. Say you're bringing the drone top farther down to sharpen it, and just when you get it almost sharp enough it suddenly "clicks" to a new, lower pitch. It's like there's an acoustic "dead zone", a pitch region the drone can't be made to play in. By the way, I've never experienced this with GHB drones, just UP, SSP, and "Continental" drones.

But a properly set-up set of Krons are a great band pipe. I was in a band with a couple Krons and they were very good. But, we played at or near 480. I just can't imagine that it would be any trouble at all to get Kron drones to play a tad flatter. It's all in reed selecton and reed adjustment.

If somebody is a very weak blower and/or bad blower, they may just have to become a better blower in order to play in tune in a band.

[jsragman77]

Kron Standards went through one or two changes - the bass middle joint. Older (pre-2001 I think) drones had a .391 middle joint and are now .422. All other bores remained the same.

The wider bass middle did, among other things, make the bass easier to reed, easier to strike-in, and increased the volume.

Mark

[Thom Lenahan]

Kron Standards went through one or two changes - the bass middle joint. Older (pre-2001 I think) drones had a .391 middle joint and are now .422. All other bores remained the same.

The wider bass middle did, among other things, make the bass easier to reed, easier to strike-in, and increased the volume.

Mark

Mark,

Has there been any other changes to the Kron standard drones post Dave? or even the Heritage for that matter?

[Don Robertson]

The problem we're having is the drones seek way out on the drone pins. I believe the reeds she's using are Shepard's, and she is a weak blower. The tone is a bit, wobbly, but even when we get someone else to play the pipes we can't the slides to come down much.

[Shawn Husk]

Don, I think I see the problem.

Shepherds are a pretty sharp reed to begin with, and if you have a weak blower chances are the bridles are moved away from the reed seat a good bit to make them easier for her to play, this makes the reed A LOT sharper, thus causing the drones to tune way out on the pins and perhaps causing the wobbly tone.

I would recommend a new set of drone reeds. Perhaps Ezeedrones or even Rockets if she can afford it. That would be the ultimate set of reeds to have in those Krons. She'd be in heaven and so would your P/M.

Shawn

[Thom Lenahan]

You might try a set of drone reed extenders for the current reeds,that should allow `em to tune lower on the pins.If they aren`t wobbly with a steady blower then it`s all up to your "weak blower" to do the rest......

[kingric]

Another option might be Balance Tones (although as Shawn said Rockets would be ideal). Balance Tones work fine, at least in Kron Heritage drones. Their tone is a bit too buzzy for my taste. However, they have advantages for a weak blower -- they're very steady and air efficient (almost as air efficient as Rockets). Also, they have a built-in slide (a kind of a drone extender) that might come in handy if the tops are tuning too high on the pins.

Hope this helps.

Richard

[pancelticpiper]

The problem we're having is the drones seek way out on the drone pins.

Thanks for clearing it up.

Every kind of reed has a different "built-in" pitch and you'll probably be best off to use a flatter make of reeds.

A while back I did a test of four makes of synthetic drone reeds in my pipes.

The pitch range was 60 cents from the flattest make of tenor reeds to the sharpest.

This is more than enough to bring those tenors down on the pins a bit to their proper place.

I tested Ezees, Kinnairds, Bannatynes, and Wygents.

With the tuner set at 476, I got the following:
Ezee +15
Kinnaird +30
Wygent +70
Bannatyne +80

All tuning screws were set to the middle of their tuning range.

The tenor drones used had a tad of hemp showing.

So obviously a person trying to tune their drones to the mid-470s is going to have a problem if using very sharp tenor reeds.

[Don Robertson]

Excellent, thanks for the replys. Shawn, I think you spot on, at one time, I set the Krons up with the Omega's out of my McCallum's, the Krons sounded delightful, but it was way to hard for the woman to play. I'll see what other reeds we can get, I think there's a set of Wygent's lying around here somewhere.

[John Henderson]

Has there been any other changes to the Kron standard drones post Dave? or even the Heritage for that matter?

I had a nice talk with Charley Kron on that very subject at the Rockland County Feis 10 days ago. Yes, there have been some changes, but he'd be the person to ask to get specifics. He did say he would make a set to the Heriage spec if requested.

FWIW, I play a set of Kron #2 with the Heritage drones, and I play carbon Rockets in the tenors, and either a cane or Kinnaird bass. Charley mentioned that the Rockets + Kinnaird bass combo was popular. My Rocket bass behaves wonderfully at lower chanter pitches (474 say), but is a real bear at 478-480. Someday I'll sort that out, but in the meantime I like the sound I get now.

[countrypiper]

We are tuning near 480, 470 is very low and I think you will find most of the higher graded Australian bands are well above that.

I think you will find this problem with the Kron's to be a reeding and set up issue rather than a bagpipe one.

I have found that the Rockets I have are quite low pitched and ezeedrones and Croziers have a huge tuning range. Canning now makes a lower pitched version of his reed also and they are pretty much plug and play.

Hope this helps.

Perhaps we're just all old guys stuck in the past.

[Jerry R. Pearce]

I have a set of Krons 05 and I have always played a set of Kinnarirds in the band with a Kron poly band chanter and Ross chanter reed and there has never been a problem with them being out of tune with the rest of the band. I also have a set of Cannings which I play with the Kron Medallist chanter with a McPhee chanter reed and again, I have never had a problem with drones not tuning in and settling perfectly in tune. My tenors are right at or 1/8' above the hemp line. the bass is two fingers showing on the tuning pin. These are the only two sets of reeds I have played in them so I can't reliably comment on any other brands. I am very happy with both of them.

[Crushed Doublings]

Drone extenders will work or simply adding weight to the reed tongues will lower the pitch. You can use candle wax to accomplish this, but make sure not to get any in the tongue bed.