Fitness question

[Blackadder]

I've read that aerobic exercise obviously increases fitness for piping. My question is, is piping itself considered an aerobic activity?

[FargoCurt]

My guess is no. It does not raise your heart rate high enough to be aerobic.

[Blackadder]

Wouldn't that depend on the fitness of the piper going into it? :lol:

[bob864]

For a 40 year old, "aerobic" starts at around 125 beats per minute.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Exercise_zones.png

[CanuckinGA]

My guess is no. It does not raise your heart rate high enough to be aerobic.

Piping may not, but band business meetings are guaranteed to raise heart rates and blood pressure. :ack::

[pipesgtdeb1963]

All piping does is helps your lungs stay strong unless you are playing the same challenging set over and over and over and over again, then your winded and your heart rate goes up but not enough to be aerobic.

[Jim Sloan]

Piping may not, but band business meetings are guaranteed to raise heart rates and blood pressure. :ack:: [/quote]

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:willy:

Jim

[Robert McDonald]

I just checked with a heart rate monitor I use for running and cycling and I'm a consistent 135 bpm which is certainly an aerobic workout for me at 50 and a half!

Robert
EKPB

[Bill Urquhart]

I've read that aerobic exercise obviously increases fitness for piping.

Could you speak more to that? Where did you read that it noticably helps piping? Not doubting, just looking for information on it.

[Sir Edwin CBE]

The fitter you are, the better you can concentrate.

There's also a stamina side involved.

[The Scottish Piper]

It might help you from getting warn out too quickly...just overall tiredness. I guess it couldn't hurt.

Cheers!

Lauree

[Blackadder]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackadder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read that aerobic exercise obviously increases fitness for piping.

Could you speak more to that? Where did you read that it noticably helps piping? Not doubting, just looking for information on it. </div></div>

Not in detail; I think it would be considered anecdotal evidence, read on this very forum in past threads.

[John McCain]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: Blackadder</div><div class="ubbcode-body">I've read that aerobic exercise obviously increases fitness for piping.

Could you speak more to that? Where did you read that it noticably helps piping? Not doubting, just looking for information on it.</div></div>

Speaking for myself, getting into better shape has made a bit of difference.

Since I started playing 20 years ago (this year!) I've always played a lot. I usually play 60-90 minutes early every morning, and often more in the evening.

A couple of years ago I started cycling 5,000+ miles per year (about 5 hours a week) and I think it has helped my piping stamina. For me, it's not a dramatic effect. I really think piping is what helps piping.

Looking at top players, I notice some seem very fit and some seem quite unhealthy. So, I don't think fitness is the key to piping success.

Best, John

[OKiepiper2]

The question was whether piping itself is an aerobic exercise. The answer has to be a qualified "no." In the same vein weight room workouts are not aerobic as well. True it can help lung capacity or maybe efficiency. By definition aerobic exercise increases heart rate. Piping in and of itself doesn't do that.

Don't be led into discussions of where heart rate for aerobic activity begins. That is extremely individual and all the charts are set for an average or a norm and are bogus. I cycle with a friend who lumbers at rest at around 50 bpm, kind of like a diesel truck. I'm more like sports car with a resting rate in the low 80's. We both were cycling one time with heart rate monitors and got some "crosstalk" on our sending units. Was really funny. He was in the 150+ and I was barely out of the chute at 95.

Lesson of this is that you need to know your maximum heart rate before you can calculate aerobic rates. Aerobic is 70% to 80% of max. To do that you need to find it at max effort for 15-30 seconds after a good warmup. If you cycle, climb a steep hill without holding anything back. Some years ago my max was 196. so my aerobic range was 136 to 156. Piping has never gotten me near that range.

If you can find your max you can calculate this for yourself. But as this thread has pointed out, aerobic training such as biking or running, will increase your overall fitness which will increase your endurance on pipes. It will also help you to be better able to play stiffer reeds. Now there is a trade-off. On the days you do your hard aerobic work, piping WILL SUFFER. But on rest days - you will be playing gang-busters.

[John McCain]

The question was whether piping itself is an aerobic exercise. The answer has to be a qualified "no." ...Piping in and of itself doesn't do that.


Depends on how much marching you do while piping.

[jamiej]

To accurately gauge any of this you need to have a stress test done and your specific training zones calculated by blood lactate levels during the test. The 220-age for LT and 180 - age for AeRHR is bogus at best as stated earlier. Even finding your maxHR is tricky w/o a real laboratory controlled stress test.
I will say this. If you are going into Z3/Z4 aerobic range during piping (alone or marching) you have some serious health issues and would probably fall into what I would call the "average American" physique. Sell your pipes for running shoes and start watching what you put in your pie hole.

[OKiepiper2]

Even finding your maxHR is tricky w/o a real laboratory controlled stress test.

Yes! And in exercise routines it can vary depending on the discipline (biking, running, swimming). jamiej makes great points. I need to note that my approach is a layman's and will get you in the ballpark much better than formulas. The second thing and this is crucial. If you do not do aerobic exercise (and higher) regularly then don't go climbing hills trying to find your max. That can be very dangerous. You have to be in very good physical condition to use the max method.

[John McCain]

Sell your pipes for running shoes and start watching what you put in your pie hole.



I'd advise to keep your pipes, sell your TV and computer, and use that time for exercising.

[chained_bear]

Sell your pipes for running shoes and start watching what you put in your pie hole.

Sell your pipes to buy running shoes? Holy crap, that'd be one expensive pair of shoes!

I'm not a piper, so whatever I say here probably isn't worth two cents, but I do fife. Before long parades, I get on my little mini-elliptical machine during my fife practicing sessions, and play through the whole repertoire while "marching." (I don't *need* the little elliptical machine, because I could just march around the house. But for me, it's easier on the machine.) I get winded a lot faster (as you would in a real parade) and my heart gets pounding. But doing this for a couple weeks before the parade REALLY helps my playing during the parade, because it helps my stamina and breathing.

For what it's worth. *shrugs*

[bob864]

<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Originally Posted By: jamiej</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Sell your pipes for running shoes and start watching what you put in your pie hole.

Sell your pipes to buy running shoes? Holy crap, that'd be one expensive pair of shoes!

</div></div>

:roflmao:

My typical pulse (just walking around doing ordinary stuff is around 70. Yesterday in the middle of practicing pipes it was 108.

So I don't know about aerobic vs. whatever-other-names-exercise-states-might-have, but I'm clearly getting more exercise than if I stay in bed....

[jamiej]

Well for an average runner @ 40 miles/week and a pair of running shoes lasts about 400 miles (racing flats maybe 200 miles). Typical pair of shoes about $80...so let's say about $500-$600/year in shoes plus warm weather gear/cold weather gear etc...it adds up.
Get into triathlon and then your looking at about $4000 for a decent bike.

Or...you could just get fat.

[bob864]

Or...you could just get fat.

I buy running shoes. A pair lasts at least a year. The most expensive shoes on the planet couldn't inspire me to go out and run.

I avoid getting fat by just not eating more calories than I need.

Cycling I enjoy, and hiking, but I just can't get into running, although I'll occasionally use a treadmill.

[chained_bear]

Well for an average runner @ 40 miles/week and a pair of running shoes lasts about 400 miles (racing flats maybe 200 miles). Typical pair of shoes about $80...so let's say about $500-$600/year in shoes plus warm weather gear/cold weather gear etc...it adds up.
Get into triathlon and then your looking at about $4000 for a decent bike.

Or...you could just get fat.

You mean I either have to do all that, or else get fat? Fine, I'll get fat. I might not live as long but I'll sure as hell have fun. :)

[Sir Edwin CBE]

Or you could have sex! Fun and you won't get fat......

Anyways - getting fitter will make anything physical easier, and we can't argue that the pipes don't take some physical effort to play.

Exercise releases endorphins which make you feel good. If you feel better about your appearance you'll be more positive about other things etc etc etc

As mentioned before - some top players are big, bulging characters. Piping isn't solely reliant on fitness.

[John Ficken]

It could be said that being "fit" makes just about any other physical work less taxing on the body, so a piper who's also a marathon runner may feel less fatigued after playing "x" amount of time than a piper who's a couch potatoe.

All is for naught, tho, if you're choppers give out first. My thought is to work the choppers first, through a program of constant and continued eating of junk food! :thumb:

[chained_bear]

All is for naught, tho, if you're choppers give out first. My thought is to work the choppers first, through a program of constant and continued eating of junk food! :thumb:

That's a strategy I can get behind. :)

[ratherbpiping]

I don't know about the marathoon runner thing. Piping can be tiresome on fingers, cheaks, left arm, some ab muscles.

While running may help some ab strength and endurance, I think it does little for left arm, ckeaks and lips

[BHorbal]

In order to raise the general apperance of pipe bands, we should start a healty regiment of haggis and scotch.We could start a chain of gyms. The general attire should require a kilt.Classes can include the elbow jig,and high stepping over horse manure.
Now we need a great name any suggestions?

[Dianne B.]

The Lock Ness Monsters ? :roflmao:

[mytachem]

As an exercise physiologist I’ll give my 2 cents on the topic: Generally speaking, piping is an aerobic exercise just like reading a book or sweeping the floor. That is, the cardiovascular (CV) system is able to supply adequate oxygen to the cells, and the cells have the capability to use that oxygen to produce the energy for the cells (which include muscle fibers).

Is piping an activity that provides an aerobic or CV training effect? Probably not (maybe a parade up a hill)… An elevated HR is not necessarily an indication of CV/aerobic training. After all, a fever will elevate HR. Most CV/aerobic training programs involve dynamic exercise (contract/relax cycles such as walking, running, etc) using large muscle groups where the intensity level is 60% or higher of the individual’s maximum aerobic capacity. Aerobic training programs improve the CV system’s ability to deliver more blood, usually by increasing the strength of the contraction of the heart muscle and pumping more blood with each beat (stroke volume- SV). Training also increases the capacity of the oxidative metabolic pathways in the cells/fibers.

Why is the HR elevated during piping? Probably because of the static exercise component of the activity. The muscles involved in applying the pressure on the bag are contracting statically (or isometrically); i.e., there is no/very little movement even with a strong muscular contraction. Blowing into the bag against pressure also increases the thoracic pressure and probably adds a static contraction component of those muscles. Static contractions are measured as a % of a person’s maximum voluntary contraction (MVC); i.e., how hard s/he can contract the muscle. At 25% MVC the blood flow to the contracting muscle begins to be compromised as the contraction begins to restrict local blood vessels. The higher the %MVC, the greater the restriction to blood flow and the shorter the time that the contraction can be maintained. In general, the CV response to static exercise is an increase in HR to compensate for the decreased SV. Static exercise also increases both systolic and diastolic blood pressure more that one would find in comparable aerobic work due to the increased peripheral resistance in the muscle and increased thoracic pressure.

The major implication I would see relates to an individual’s MVC. Strength training to increase the MVC of the muscles involved in piping would mean that that person could play the pipes at a lower %MVC and could maintain a given pressure for a longer period of time with less effect on HR and BP. This may particularly important for women; their static upper body strength averages 56% that of males.

Some level of aerobic capacity would certainly be necessary for piping, especially while doing extended parades. Most active, healthy adults would, most likely, meet that standard.

[Heatherbelle]

As an exercise physiologist I’ll give my 2 cents on the topic: Generally speaking, piping is an aerobic exercise just like reading a book or sweeping the floor.



While getting blood taken last week, the nurse asked about my piping. She said 'it must keep your lungs healthy'. People often make such comments and I'm never sure what piping actually DOES do for us physically. What would be a sentence that would be accurate, that a lay person would understand? Most people wouldn't know what CV,HR and MVC are,though they are interesting in this discussion, but a simple sentence would be very useful.

[Ken MacKenzie]

Whether aerobic or not...

I have had two physiotherapists tell me that there is a difference in my left and right upper back that they thought may have been caused by an activity I must have been doing for a long period of time. Neither knew I was a piper and when I told them and then explained what that meant as far as the way the instrument was played, they immediately understood.

One of them went to the extent that she had me bring my pipes in and give her a demonstration, without my shirt on, while she walked around me closely inspecting my torso. Try that for a distraction. Never mind playing for a judge.

This is all I need to tell me that there has to be at least a bit of a workout involved in our obsession, even if it may take fifty years to manifest itself...

As another aside to this thread, I'll be visiting the latter therapist next week to see if she can figure out why I can't turn my head (neck) as far to the left as the right. Another piping injury? This lady is the only Physio out of many I have been referred to over the years who actually has been able to help me with my back problems. She saved me from surgery nearly ten years ago so I'm hopeful she'll come through for me once again.

Stay tuned.

Ken

[Bob Budesa]

Whether aerobic or not...

I'll be visiting the latter therapist next week to see if she can figure out why I can't turn my head (neck) as far to the left as the right.

Ken, which side of the highland dancing stage do you usually sit on? Try sitting on the other side next time. It's worked for me!

We can further discuss such 'heady' topics in Portland over a glass of stout!

[Ken MacKenzie]

Ken, which side of the highland dancing stage do you usually sit on? Try sitting on the other side next time. It's worked for me!

We can further discuss such 'heady' topics in Portland over a glass of stout!

Good diagnosis Bob. :thumb: I'll pass it along to the therapist next time I go, maybe she'll not hurt me as much next time...

As for the glass, maybe next year. I'll be in Scotland for the whole summer this year and only be able to get to the Bellingham Games before we hit the road. Won't be back until mid-September.

Ken

[Bob Budesa]

Awww . . . that's tough.

Well, a guy's gotta do what a guy's gotta do.

I'm sure you'll put a good face on it, and try to have the best time you can have.

Keep your chin up, old boy!

[burp birl]

:woot: I'm still stuck on picturing Ken piping neck-ed (waist up) in front of a gal :thumb:

[Airborne92]

You mean I either have to do all that, or else get fat? Fine, I'll get fat. I might not live as long but I'll sure as hell have fun. :)



Yeah, that's what I always said until my heart attack on New Year's weekend. It's a hell of a motivation to lose weight (&amp; stay alive). Plus, I'm six weeks behind working on the competition set. :bleh:

SCK