Problems with band member.

[Dennis McCarthy]

I have a friend in a band who is having problems with one of their members. So I was wondering what some of you more experienced band members / leaders wuould do with a member who is so disruptive that he will go to any length to prevent the band from competing in an upcoming competition.
Any suggestions would be appreciated and thanks in advance.

[KJacksonCapp]

"On your bike, son."

[Connie B]

I love Klatsonkapp's reply but alas we're a little more formal. First off, we have written bylaws so we can say "hey you are violating these so knock it off."

First, a talking-to. Then, written warning, suspension, or dismissal.

This of course is AFTER we experienced some festering conflicts that blew up horribly. Now I like to nip things in the bud in a respectful way. I hope.

Connie
Kells Irish Pipes and Drums

[Dennis McCarthy]

Originally posted by KJacksonCapp:
"On your bike, son."Yeah...that was what I first thought. :thumb:

However, as I have gotten more information concerning this dilemma, apparently they have already kicked this person out of the band, but the person is now waging a campaign to discredit the band, and take as many people with him. One or two have already left the band over the controversy. My friend mentioned that he doesn't have legal recourse, but was wondering what other Pipe Majors have done in similar circumstances.

Apparently the disgruntled band member was dismissed under four items in the Member Conduct code. Also it takes a 2/3's majority vote by the general band membership to terminate any member.

He has gone so far as to try severe the band's sponsor from the group.

Any suggestions?

Thanks again. :)

[Steve MacLeod]

Although you seem to have moved beyond the original question, I'd had to deal with this and have put my thoughts at http://www.iserv.net/~macleod/learning/index.html
under the heading of Band Politics/Issues. In particular, the topic of "How do you deal with a deadbeat?" might be most helpful.

[Chris Hossack]

You say "Adios" and move on. The same is true for the ones that leave with him/her. If they leave over that, they haven't bought into the goals for your band, anyway, and will just be trouble in the future. In fact, while you're at it, see if there are any others that need a nudge out. There is nothing worse than a cancer within the band. If they want to use up all their energy trying to keep the pot stirred up after they leave, that's their problem, but if you join in, you're playing into their hands and you are getting distracted from your own goals. Like they say in Hockey, "Initiate, not retaliate." :thumb:

Chris Hossack
Mesa Caledonian PB
www.mcpb.org (http://www.mcpb.org)

[Linkovich]

Originally posted by Chris Hossack:
You say "Adios" and move on. The same is true for the ones that leave with him/her. If they leave over that, they haven't bought into the goals for your band, anyway, and will just be trouble in the future. In fact, while you're at it, see if there are any others that need a nudge out. There is nothing worse than a cancer within the band. If they want to use up all their energy trying to keep the pot stirred up after they leave, that's their problem, but if you join in, you're playing into their hands and you are getting distracted from your own goals. Like they say in Hockey, "Initiate, not retaliate."
Excellent post Chris. If you are PM, you can't dance.... get rid of them and don't look back.

[The Wick]

How about a punch in the mouth and told to GTF!!! :wink:

[Taoralurath]

If its realllllly serious - Document it - tape recorder, cam corder, etc. Then, call your friendly local sherrifs, and, depending on the offense, call the local piping organization (have him kicked out!). Or, hire a PI to get the goods on him, then offer him a deal.
(Scram....or else) Maybe even the IRS or the INS might be interested....(hey, you never know!)

If this guy has been in a band before and caused similar problems, find out how the previous band handled it.

If the guy is just a jerk, or is mental, lock your doors at practice and ignore him; eventually he'll tire of trying to aggravate people who aren't even aware of him, and he'll move on to the next pipe band.......

[Paul Wood]

You said that a 2/3rds majority vote removed the schmuck from the band...I assume that maybe a few more than 2/3rds. If there are a few people who voted that he stay, then maybe you'll lose them but the remainder of the band thinks kicking him out was a good idea.

OK then...if anyone else goes with him then bye bye to them too! Get rid of the sour grapes and move on.

[Royce]

Originally posted by Dennis McCarthy:
I have a friend in a band who is having problems with one of their members. So I was wondering what some of you more experienced band members / leaders wuould do with a member who is so disruptive that he will go to any length to prevent the band from competing in an upcoming competition.
Any suggestions would be appreciated and thanks in advance.As others have presented further information, maybe your PM is a complete know-nothing loser who stays in office by promising hacks a spot in the circle in return for a vote, maybe the band is as deluded, clannish, and warlike as the malcontent in question claims, maybe he's entirely right about you all wasting your time in the current regime, and maybe those guys deserting you are the best pipers and drummers in the band and thus in the best position to realize this.

Maybe the guy and those who think in like fashion should just be allowed to go their way without the cultic bondage, shunning/shame techniques and the attempts to discredit them we see here and you can go back undisturbed by youth or talent or a future, and just enjoy dressing up and having fun pretending to be a serious musical organization.

Or maybe you should reconsider your mission statement and if it includes music, you could make decisions based on advancing that, and not a lot of by-laws designed to insure the incumbent and status-quo remain firmly entrenched and protected from informed scrutiny by those who actually have talent, vision and leadership potential in a musical sense, rather than a social sense.

We only have your side of the story after all. There are always at least two. Unless you're really prepared to dig deep into the gutter of your band politics (don't pretend you don't have one) nobody can help you.

Maybe.

Royce

[Jeff Boyle]

As has been mentioned ... you probably will be better off in the long run without this individual and any members who agree with him. As far as discrediting the band with the sponsor .... if you're organization is sound the sponsor will see this. You'd be best to get rid of the cancer while you can before it spreads!! :thumb:

[Royce]

Originally posted by Jeff Boyle:
As has been mentioned ... you probably will be better off in the long run without this individual and any members who agree with him. As far as discrediting the band with the sponsor .... if you're organization is sound the sponsor will see this. You'd be best to get rid of the cancer while you can before it spreads!! :thumb: Playing the devil's advocate again, we don't know that. The "cancer" you assume may in fact be perfectly normal fetal development, not just a lump of aberrant tissue inconveniencing the host. Driving out youth and talent for instance, every time it rears its ugly head is not what insures the life of a good band, only the immediate complacency of a hack band.

Always be very reserved in making political and social recommendations based on leading statements like these. The person is presented as a "problem" but we don't even know that. The question seems to be, how do we get rid of this "problem," when if that's the case, who would have to ask the question? You'd just kick them out and get on with it. The real question seems to be, "How can we get this guy we kicked out to stop saying bad things about our band and making so many people agree with him and thus cause us trouble."

If the band didn't have problems, nothing this person could say would persuade others to agree, and there would be no problem. Since there appears to be a problem, an outsider would be hard-pressed to make the call between said problem lying in the band, or the expelled member/s. (Since we can presume there is more than one person here at this point.)

Royce

[Eric M]

Royce,

Please stop paying devil's advocate. You admitted you only have his side of the story, so why invent an alternative story? Dennis asked what we would do if a former member was going out of his way to disrupt the band. Instead of attacking him for presenting only one side of the issues, let's give him the advice he asked for.

My advice: Just a repeat of some of the above. Ignore him as much as possible. If people leave the band, let them go. If it involves slander and it's severe enough, take legal action. Make sure you've got bylaws that define a code of conduct (it sounds like that one is taken care of). Develop your leadership skills and exercise them. Operate the band as an organisation (it's a non-profit right? There was mention of a sponsor), and don't take business personally.

Eric

[Dennis McCarthy]

Thanks to all of you who took the time to give advice.

Bob, recommend this thread be closed. Time to move on!

[Royce]

[QUOTE]Originally posted by Eric Mrozek:
[QB]Royce,

Please stop paying devil's advocate. You admitted you only have his side of the story, so why invent an alternative story? Dennis asked what we would do if a former member was going out of his way to disrupt the band. Instead of attacking him for presenting only one side of the issues, let's give him the advice he asked for.

He doesn't need the advice he asked for. He already has made all the decisions, he's not asking for advice, he's asking for validation of conclusions and actions he already has taken or has in mind. You're only capable of agreeing with him under those conditions, and any "advise" you'd give would be worthless.

My suggestion would be for a clearer explanation of the issues involved, the players on each side of the issues, and like I say, unless he's really interested in examining the political and social structure of his band from the inside out, stem to stern, the only purpose any of us could serve in answering a question that includes the answer is to reinforce the answer. The guy is kicked out, end of story, that's all you have power to do.

Royce