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View Full Version : Newbies are people too!


Mitch Man
01-05-2002, 08:05 AM
OK for my 300th post, here is a really hot topic that needs to be sorrily addressed!

There seems to be a notion that there is a certain level of predudice toward Adult Learners
in the piping world.

Let me be honest and comfirm this is true, but
not to the extent where we sit on a hill at the
highland games with a 6 pack and a Deer rifle
looking for newbies!

It comes from a preference between teaching kids
who offer no resistance to learning something new or teaching adults with attitudes that hinder more then help. Too many questions only add confusion and many adults are not capable of
taking instruction, meaning they can't follow orders.

I find that if students do exactly what they are told to do, then they don't have problems! It's
when the student comes back the next week and
hasn't played what you instructed them to do, then I think what is the point of teaching them.
This is where the main frustration lies!

It is even more evident when confrontations on
public forums take place in regards to debates
about piping topics. Debates are about differing
opinions which are based on some form of facts
and experience. Many lack the real experience
to form a truly educated opionion on tone issues and solving problems.

Speaking from an experienced player's point of view, it's sometimes irretating to read some of the tripe that's printed in these forums from
some of the newcomers who understand nothing
of the piping world let alone the music world too.

Much like that new person who comes into the
office with all sorts of ideas on how to save
money on paper, better ways to create reports faster or the Rookie Cop who tells you his idea of how to deal with bad guys! All Naive!!!!!

Just look to your own industries to experience the
newbies that try to tell you how things should be run. I have seen both sides literally attack each
other in topics as simple as Bag Seasoning.

What I do enjoy is seeing a student progress, and
it's a real pleasure to work with students who are
enthusiastic and willing to work hard. I do not discriminate against age, as I have just recently
found out that there are some instructors who refuse to take adult learners. This was a concept I have never heard of before, except from many top
pipers who only teach promising prize winning students.

The thing to remember is to keep your mind open when reading these "Free" forums! Advice is cheap!
I teach concepts that are not always straight forward, but they are all designed to get the student to think outside the box and get past the thinking of mediocredy.(Spelling is note my forte)

JM

Patrick Piper
01-05-2002, 08:55 AM
[QUOTE]Originally posted by Mitch Man:
[QB]
>OK for my 300th post, here is a really hot topic that needs to be sorrily addressed!

I see volume, not quality, counts in your life.

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>It comes from a preference between teaching kids
who offer no resistance to learning something new or teaching adults with attitudes that hinder more then help. Too many questions only add confusion and many adults are not capable of
taking instruction, meaning they can't follow orders.

If someone is not up to the challenge and wants to take the easy way out, then don't teach adults. In fact, with an attitude like yours, I wouldn't try to teach them anything. Adults may exhibit "attitudes" because of teaching styles like the one you try to explain and justify here. Are adults really unteachable, John?

------------------------------
>I find that if students do exactly what they are told to do, then they don't have problems! It's
when the student comes back the next week and
hasn't played what you instructed them to do, then I think what is the point of teaching them.
This is where the main frustration lies!

If they don't practice, kid or adult, then I wouldn't waste my time either. What are you getting at, John?

-----------------------
>Speaking from an experienced player's point of view, it's sometimes irretating to read some of the tripe that's printed in these forums from
some of the newcomers who understand nothing
of the piping world let alone the music world too.

"Irritating" only because you alone have the right answer. Right, John.

--------------------------
>Much like that new person who comes into the
office with all sorts of ideas on how to save
money on paper, better ways to create reports faster or the Rookie Cop who tells you his idea of how to deal with bad guys! All Naive!!!!!

And, if new ideas never crop up, how do you suppose we advance ourselves? By listening to the grizzled advice of know-it-alls like you?

---------------------
>What I do enjoy is seeing a student progress, and
it's a real pleasure to work with students who are
enthusiastic and willing to work hard.

And, ones who take orders from you without question.

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>The thing to remember is to keep your mind open...

And, these words come from one of the most closed minded persons I've had the pleasure of coming in contact with. But, I'm sure there are more out there just like you, John.

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>I teach concepts that are not always straight forward, but they are all designed to get the student to think outside the box...

How can anyone "think outside of the box" unless they understand what's inside the box in the first place. If you don't asked questions, you can't possibly understand everything that's thrown at you in any learning endeavor. If you demand compliance from someone, in the absence of imparting/teaching the "why", then you are not "teaching". You are simply a task master.

If teaching concepts can't withstand a little scrutiny, then they have no basis for being implimented. Or, it might be that the "teacher" simply doesn't have the ability to explain to another person what is happening during their instruction. I think it's a persons own inability to scrutinize ones own self that scares people away from teaching. If you simpy demand everything from people, then go ahead and take the easy way out. No one can possibly be that knowleageable about basics as to never "question" a teacher about a concept or idea. If we don't question ideas, philosophies or concepts then people tend to stay inside the box with their thinking. They never make it out. :D

Pat

Ken MacKenzie
01-05-2002, 09:32 AM
I am closing this topic because of the contentious nature of the subject matter. More because of the tone of the arguments than for any specific remarks made here.

Ken