Blowing Steady

[Piperman037]

I am having trouble keeping even pressure on the bag. Can't stay in tune very long.
Part of it is what does steady pressure constitute ie. howmuch do you need? The rest is need for exercises to strenghten my left arm. Had quadruple bypass a year ago and things have not quite same since. My instructor is at her wits end. She is quite good but we are both having trouble with this.
Don't want to lose her. Any tips or tricks?

Piperman037

[Christopher]

Here is something that I was told about by a grade one piper. Try playing leaning against a wall (your arm that's on the bag against the wall). Don't let your body move much. When you play against the wall it forces you to keep constant pressure against the bag.
You shouldn't do this all the time because you need your left arm to be strong, but you can use it as an exercise to help learn to keep constant pressure on the bag.
Hope this helps.
Christopher

[Phil Lenihan]

Piperman037 Welcome. I see this is your first post. We hope you join us for many furture Posts.

First a disclamer... The House of Bagpipes is my client and I do their web page.

You might want to look at
Piper\'s Steady Blow Manometer (http://www.houseofbagpipes.com/manometer.htm) It might help. Your teacher might want to get one to share among her students. Juat a thought.

Cheers! PHIL

[the fishiologist]

some easy reeds and a lot of practice. 15 to 30 minutes a day for a few weeks will get the stamina and strength up considerably (and the practice will also help you hear when you're not blowing steady). Also, remember that one of the keys to steady blowing is the squeezing part. you should start to exert gentle pressure on the bag before you start to take a breath so that there's no lapse in pressure when you stop blowing. Ditto when you start blowing again - start to blow gradually harder as you gradually release your arm pressure on the bag. It's a bit like patting your head and rubbing your belly, but once you've got it down it should come pretty naturally. Phil's suggestion of the manometer (or even a tuner microphone hooked up to your drones, with the display in front of you) will help you gauge how well you're doing and what part of the blowing cycle you need to work on.

[Piperman037]

To Christopher,Phil and the fishiologist. Thanks for the suggestions. Will give them a try.
Piperman037

[Canalpiper]

Piperman
keep us up to date on how your getting along. I'm in a similar place, and would like to compare notes. I find staying in tune to be challenging. sometimes an extended E sounds great and other times it sounds bad enough that I change bag pressure without even thinking about it.
I tried a home made manometer but it kept closing off. I was playing really evenly then, that water was perfectly still. now I use a tuner. I try to set it up so that it's in the green when playing As, and Es.
Mike Z

[Piperman037]

Ok Canalpiper. Let you know what's happening.

Piperman037

[the fishiologist]

Mike,
If you attach your tuner to one of your drones, then the arrow should stay in the green all the time (the pitch of your drones doesn't change). If you're not blowing steady, it'll dip and waver all over the place as the tone changes. If you're blowing steady, the arrow should stand totally still and in tune. If you don't have one of those dandy little clip on microphones for your tuner, try to find one so that you can clip it to your drones and keep the tuner in front of you. Good luck both of you!

[ratherbpiping]

Trouble with a digital tuner is that it is relitively slow. Being a digital device it Sample, Calculates then indicates. So you really only get a good reading on extended notes.

As fish says, better to put on the drone. However even there there will be a filteing effect.

Blow stock valve can also effect pressure. If your vavle is sticky or unstable, such tat it "Pops" open when you blow or pops or bounces when it closes, it can effect your blowing. Usually when I have had that problem it was a cleanliness issue.

[Ghengis]

Maybe we could get a list of some other techniques for pressure control and development from people.

I often suggest to play slow airs and marches to feel when the body is struggling and to even go as far to tape the performnce and look back visually and for audio analysis of when the pressure is off.

Often I suggest the player avoid breathing if possible on the top hand as this is where I often hear the most trouble.(top hand a bit harder to control?) I'm a big believer in control of the diaphram muscle to improve pressure control and delivery of course in conjunction with an excellent arm transition. (singers and vocalists swear by the develpoment of this) I am curious though how others can help people with poor pressure control and transition as i have a few in the band that don't get better and continue to struggle. They often avoid the practice as they aren't seeing an improvement.

Scuba divers had an interesting technique of 'packing the lungs" to increase volume in the lung area, actually stretching the muscles. I wonder if this would work too? Would increases in lung capacity translate into a bit more control?

Any ideas?

[Stuart Barr]

My tip is to play only tunes you know very very well, or simple scales, or simple doubling exercises etc. Even holding the same note for minutes on end. Do it often, and it will come.

If you're trying hard to think of the tune, that's one part of your brain not concentrating on the steady blowing. I agree with Ghengis on the slow airs and marches.

These tips were given to me, and worked for me. Your mileage may vary.

I did pick up the manometer, and even hooked it up to a tube to see when blowing steady (see my entry with the picture in this thread from the DIY forum (http://www.bobdunsire.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=14;t=000351#000000) ), but, to be honest, I did not use it often. My ears quickly became accustomed to whether I was blowing steady. My issue was not knowing that I was blowing steady, it was doing something about it (which really in my case came down to increasing the pressure on the bag consistently)

Good luck,
Stuart.

[Ken MacKenzie]

These are all good tips. The ones that
I find are most useful for students are mentioned in Stuart's post.

Play a single E for and extended period and LISTEN.

It's been said before, "Blow with your ears."

It also could be benificial to revert to drones or even one drone or chanter only for practice blowing at the beginning of each session. Do this for as close to ten minutes as you can and when you achieve a steady tone where you can HEAR that there is no wavering, REMEMBER how it feels and apply it to when you play tunes.

There is a piper that was quite a prolific poster here at one time who was at sea on a carrier for an extended period right after he got his pipes. He didn't have a chanter reed so he played drones only for months. He credits this with making his transition to full pipes almost flawless.

Ken

[grant.harbison]

If you haven't gotten enough advice yet, one other thing is to play with a tuner in front of you. Every once in a while cut back to low A and see if you hit the same frequency. If not, then you've allowed yourself to wander off the appropriate pressure. Keep correcting and listening while you do it... after a few years you should have it down.

[Canalpiper]

Mike, and Fish.
New flapper did seem to make some difference. I know I'm not doing as badly as I think, PM even had me be the tuner last Thurs. had to play Rowan tree about thirty times over as he compared chanters. he wouldn't have done that if I wasn't improving. Thing is, I want more.
Who doesn't, right?
One question. Filtering effect? I have two contact mics, a clamp on and a stick on (for my classical guitar) I put either on one of my tenors and they still pick up the chanter enough to effect the tuner. can this effect be lessened somehow?
Mike

[Nick W]

I’m going to try and articulate how I was taught, here goes. Cork the drones and blow a constant E or F, think of your Bag Arm as a hinged shoulder with a spring. Imagine this spring is attached to your bicep at one end and your upper rib cage at the other, this spring provides a steady pressure on the bag, as the bag deflates you naturally blow to inflate the bag, think of your breath as “blowing your arm outwards” as you stop blowing the spring pressure in your arm squeezes on the bag. In other words, you are “blowing your arm off the bag.” Listen closely to you chanter and experiment. Hope this helps in some way, helped me.

Cheers,

[Hump]

I compared it to driving a standard transmission car. Every shift needs those smooth transissions. As I got better, my arm automatically squeezed as I took a deep breath. I actually feel like my arm maintains its position in space while my chest expands. The action of my chest/ribs expanding sqeezes the bag towards my arm without actually having to push my arm into the bag. Then, as I blow my ribs recede from my arm for a second while the pressure stays equal. Yeah, my arm muscles are working, but I don't think my arm moves in and out at all... just my ribcage. It will become semi-natural over time. I get sloppy when I'm exhausted.

[Fred Fomm]

Piperman,

first of all, welcome to BDF! Sad to have seen this only now; much of what I'd say has already been neatly posted by the fellows forumites...

With little extra to add, I'd say that before you break your head trying to figure vast intricacies you should rule out the basic obvious problems, such as:

Fingering - the most common cause of unsteady blowing inside my band is tunes not properly memorised... The pipers who have a hovering tuning in harder tunes such as Rob Mathieson's 'James A Henderson' are the same who five minutes later blow like the gails in 'STB'...

Setting - check for size of the bag, quality of the bag, eventual leakages, seasoning, hardness of reeds, quality of reeds (drone canes are much more technical - trust me as a cane purist); check for the mouthpiece valve and so on...

Positioning - 'hae yir pipes ferm'n yir oxter', as was said by some of my tutors back in Glasgow; that means you have to get a firm grip of the fully inflated sack deep in your armpit; the forearm must not hold the bag but stay free in the air...

Physical condition - a quadruple bypass is no child's play (trust me again; am a General Practician), and hence your aerobic capacity may be hampered. My personal tip also as a long-distance runner would be, take up a comprehensive aerobic exercise programme (hiking, running, swimming, yoga, take your pick) closely supervised by a fellow Physician. And blimey, do not smoke!! (I trust you don't already...)

That all put mate, you have a lot to go on for these days... Hope you solve your problem...

Sláinte! and keep piping!!

:banana: :banana: :banana:

[Jim Sloan]

Spend more time on the pipes than your PC.

Jim

[Piperman037]

For Fred Fomm,

Thanks, I was hoping there would be a reply from someone in the medical community. I don't smoke, but thanks for the warning, and I am walking 40 minutes to an hour per day and stretching. There are some skips but not many. thanks for the rest of the stuff also.
piperman

[Fred Fomm]

Piperman,

you'll be duly billed...

http://www.shared-vision.com/2006/sv1901/img/health1901index.jpg

Just joking mate!!! Don't worry!!!!

:banana: :banana: :banana: :banana:

Now seriously, am glad I was of any help/comfort... Steady on with your exercises and do not rush into things - in Brazil we say, 'the hasty ones eat it raw'...

And let us know how's it going!!

Sláinte! and keep piping!!

[CalumII]

One of the few things you Brazilians have in common with the Scots is lots of daft sayings :wink:

The key to steady bag pressure is steady arm pressure. It is a common misconception that the arm should let go when you are blowing; it should not. Guaranteed recipe for imperfect steadiness. Bear down on the bag arm with constant pressure and you will go a long way. The manometer is good if you aren't confident about what you are hearing.

And of course Fred's advice about checking for leaks and dodgy reeds is often the obvious thing that is overlooked (that is, 'the cobbler's bairns hae nae shoon').

Cheers,
Calum

[Bilbotc2]

Howdy, not necessarily on or off topic, and some might even find it sacreligous, but I'm a professional clown and do that whole ballooon animal thing. I have for years blown those silly little things up by mouth, (try blowing one up if you think it's easy), recently the industry came up with a quiet rechargeable airpump that would fit in a medium/large sporran. There is a thumbswitch to start and stop the pump. It'll work for about 4 hours per charge. I'm working on adapting such a device to attach to the blowstick. Yes I know, I can hear the screaming going on about cheating...but as we age we may not have the lungs we did years ago. I'm looking for an edge. Hell some think the bellows are cheating, this device would supply a regulated pressure to the bag so there should be no pitch changing issues either. I hope to be playing into my 80's and not having to worry about my pipes being the cause of my death.

[piob player]

What kind of tuner with a microphone clip to the drone do you recommend?

[Chuck Bohannon]

Something the APB does is use a homemade manometer and a tuner. Watch the tuner and the manometer as you play. It is amazing what a couple of weeks of doing this will do for your playing.

The homemade manometer is inexpensive and can be made with minimal effort from materials from Lowe's or Home Depot.

[ScotDrumr]

My 2c's worth is a plug for the pitchpipetuner.
http://www.pitchpipetuner.com
Amazing how fast this locks onto the pitch. You can watch the needle to see if you're blowing steady or there is an option to set the waveform window to a pitch or volume histogram (if memory serves).

[Canalpiper]

I don't know the make of mine, but I do know it will only go on the tuning pin. It doesn't open wide enough to put on the bell. The Korg (clamp/contact) mic, however, does open wide enough to put just about whever you want.
it goes for between $10 and $20.
Mike Z

[Hump]

Check this guy out:


http://www.musiciansfriend.com/product/General/Accessories/Tuners?sku=210011


They work really well for band instruments, but never tried it with my pipes. The clamp is plenty big for drones though. I do not remember if you can change it from 440 or not.

[Andrew Lenz]

FWIW, there are instructions on my site on how to make a water manometer:
http://www.BagpipeJourney.com/articles/manometer.shtml

Big visual biometric feedback.

Andrew

[Bob Boyd]

Play,play,play,play, play and play some more. It takes alot of playing to get comfortable with bag pressure and tone. Play, play, play, play, play....... You will start to hear the pressure and tone. Then play,play,play play,play......

[Rob Fox]

Hump's parallel between stick-shift transmission and blowing is interesting. When I first started driving stick I'd kill the engine over and over, but after a few months I could shift with the best of them. I never drove stick before I bought a Jeep Wrangler in 99, and even now when I drive an automatic transmission my left foot twitches to apply the clutch--it's that ingrained. I'd love to attain that sort of "habit" with my blowing--for it to be such an automatic reaction ("smooth shifting", so to speak).
Maybe the new perspective created by this visual picture will prove helpful.

[irishpiper66]

I stumbled across this and couldn't resist adding my 2c's too. The manometer that you can fashion to actually attach to your pipes while blowing is invaluable. My instructor has it and we were able to pinpoint exactly where my subtle pressure dip was happening. For me it's the exchange between the end of my blowing and the beginning of the squeezing and the reverse. I was not visualizing needing to push my elbow back off the bag with my blowing and as a result there was a very slight dip in pressure before it recovered.

Still working on it, but the manometer has been helping a great deal. Good visual feedback and helps to keep you honest and develop great technique.

Good luck!

[Rooster59]

I whipped up a manometer from Andrews instructions. What an enlightening experience. It's amazing tho'..I couldn't blow because I was laughing so hard at first. It was such a visual experience "watching" my blowing, and how much variation there was.
Total cost...about 8-10 bucks.
Value...priceless.

[raymac]

Why can't you use a manometer if you use drone valves?

Raymac

[Bob Norris]

Play,play,play,play, play and play some more. It takes allot of playing to get comfortable with bag pressure and tone. Play, play, play, play, play....... You will start to hear the pressure and tone. Then play,play,play play,play...... Best advise yet!

[BJC97]

this is what's worked for me, although I've only been on the pipes for about 6 months now:

a. Nick's advice (see above)
b. think of the bag as a football under your arm. you want to blow, breathe, and squeeze to maintain that constant solid "football" feeling. Squeeze with your elbow.
c. Bob's advice (see above. The Pitchpipe tuner is an immnse help to getting your pipes setup and sounding good. the software is not a substitute for tuning by ear, but it gets you in the ballpark quickly.
d. I practiced playing scales & scalic exercises, while concentrating on blowing for about 3 seconds, taking a breath (a deep breath) while squeezing to maintain pressure, then blowing again, while slightly relaxing my arm to allow the bag to inflate. you must learn to relax while doing this, just as you should have a light and relaxed grip on the chanter.
e. once you have this down, pick a repertoire of 3 to 4 simple tunes, and practice with them, daily, or more. It's not unusual for me to pick up the pipes 5 or more times daily and honk out a few tunes.
f. wear ear protection! the earplugs that shooters use (less than 10 bucks) work fine.
g. record yourself. You can hear very well how steady or unsteady you are on the recording.

I do spend time on my Practice chanter to learn and refine the technical movements, and I try to add a new tune every few weeks. Alot of my time on the PC is done in the car. But, I try to spend more time on the pipes than on the PC. Once you start getting this down, you'll be surprised at how quickly you can add new tunes to your repertoire, particularly if you strive to learn the tune in phrases.

the best of luck to you.

[Ken Maxwell]

Mr piperman 037,For what it is worth, may I suggest standing in front of a full length mirror while playing your favourite tunes. Watch yourself very carefully, are you making faces, puffing in & out? Is the blow stick in the center of your mouth? Are you happy with your appearance?
Now, how is the sound? even, up & down? the pitch pipe tuner would also help. I am very fortunate to have been taught back in the 40's by a very wise piper. Practice, practice, but have fun.