Lazy Scores

[duncan]

Over the past few years while judging, teaching and observing bands, I have noticed that pipe corps tend to change their selections of music often while drum corps tend to recycle material or play massed band scores.

The result is that the drummers' bag of tricks is stagnant. This is true in all grades. Often scores are simply the same phrases rearranged. Judges, especially ensemble judges, pick up on this to the detriment of the band.

Obviously, a well tuned, well rehearsed band will place higher than an unorganized unit, but are they growing?

Reid Maxwell and I had dinner the other night and we were talking about this issue. We both agree that score writing for the whole drum corps seems to be the root of the problem. There is nothing more frustrating than a band that is camped-out in a grade it could grow out of. This affects all the other bands in the same grade and the grade above.

So, write some scores or get someone to do it. Whatever you do, get away from the massed band scores. They don't fit the tunes and they put you in a holding pattern.

I write custom scores for solo players and bands, see www.muelaw.com/scores.html, (http://www.muelaw.com/scores.html) Buzz Brown offers a great book of scores for grade 4 level players. For that matter, just about any decent drummer will do it or know someone else that will.

Duncan

I edited to update my info. Shows how long it has been since I posted.

[Ted McKnight]

Duncan,
I agree with you wholeheartedly! It does tend to show, prominently in the grade 4/5 drum corps. If a drum corps is going to grow and improve, you need to get away from massed band scores! Ok, so maybe the corps is more solid when they are playing the standard 2/4 march. The judges won't care! Take a risk, and get an original set! With practice, and a lot of communication within the corps, you can get a solid sound. But it HAS TO FIT MUSICALLY! That is what the corps is there for...to compliment the pipers, and complete the ensemble. :woohoo:

[Michael Price]

Maybe this is a problem out West. And that isn't meant as a snide remark. In the east, I have almost no Grade 4 band playing a Massed Band Setting.

Some of the Grade 5 bands have and I guess in that grade I don't mind too much. I mean if they want to move up and be competitive, yes, get someone to write someone for you.

Our Grade 4 in the EUSPBA is quite competitive with drumming almost being the catalyst to a band winning or losing these days. Scoring is quite close in 4 withe upper crust bands.

By the way, Blair's book is great, my beginners are getting a lot out of that book. If our Grade 5 band ever gets off the ground WATCH OUT!

Cheers,
Michael Price
L/D 1st Highland Watch (http://www.thewatch-pb.com)
EUSPBA Gr4
:humm:

[Mike Cole]

Excellent point Duncan. There is a tendency for corps to cut, paste and recycle: side, tenor and bass drum scores for the sake of time and/or simplicity. This does little or nothing for the advancement of the art of pipe band drumming, much less the advancement of your playing ability.

As you mentioned, pipers change material with relative frequence...they have the luxury, for the most part, of being able to draw from a variety of published sources. Recycled massed bands scores just don't cut it. While they contain some great 2 bar phrases for the beginning drummer, they are beginners' scores...move on once you have them mastered! The Alex Duthart books have great stuff in them, however, I'd caution corps from the temptation of diluting them for a 'playable' competition score...it is something akin to a sacrilige amongst a number of judges :bleh:

For the top drum corps, having premier players (no pun intended) provides a wealth of writing experience and knowledge to draw on. They are few compared to the remaining masses.
For corps that want to advance, I see a few possibilities:
• have an experienced composer write scores for your corps
• bring him/her in to teach the corps how to play and express the scores...videos and recordings are a decent lower cost stand-by.
• have your LD take lessons from an experienced player in the fine art of writing a score
• encourage your local association to sponsor a composition workshop.
• have a mentor help you during your learning process

[Ted McKnight]

It really is not so much a problem, as it is a nuisance to the trained ear. I wish to rephrase what I said earlier today, just above, because not too many bands really do it, minus some performance bands. I don't mean that as a snide comment either, but it is the case with some. Please bear with me. I don't want to sound like a bad guy here! :hatoff:
However, I agree with the people that have posted here, and it would be good for a corps to listen (obviously not literally) to these words of wisdom being posted.

(God I hope no one takes this the wrong way!)

[Drew McPheeters]

Originally posted by duncan:
Over the past few years while judging, teaching and observing bands, I have noticed that pipe corps tend to change their selections of music often while drum corps tend to recycle material or play massed band scores.
Hey Duncan, nice to hear from you!

A little clarification please. Are you speaking about the "actual" mass band settings (i.e. the PPBSO settings) or the mass-bandish type of arrangement using buskers?

I have seen only one or maybe two bands play the actual mass band seting, and they were very rudimentary corps (no pun intended).

[duncan]

Drew,
I am speaking about any standardized score that was not written for the specific tune it is being played with.
Duncan

[Kimberly Rudge]

Hi Duncan!

Okay, I'll admit it - we're guilty of this one. However, our lazy scores are definitely not related to our competition tunes, or any other tunes played with any degree of frequency. I'm not saying that's excusable, but it leads me to believe that our being "camped out in a grade" (which we definitely are) can be attributed to something else.

Regardless, we stumbled into a way of correcting the problem: We're having a concert next month and suddenly the things we got away with before (including buskers and recycled settings), seem much more offensive than they had previously. While it's too bad that it took the scheduling of a formal concert to get this going, at least we're now taking the next step.

Mike brings up a great point - there's a big difference between writing a score and just picking up a book, and composition is not our L/D's strength. (Excellent idea to incorporate it as a workshop topic). Reid had offered me a few basic guidelines/considerations when I wrote my first score, and it helped immensely.

It may not be a traditional approach, but we as a corps have begun sharing the responsibility, and are currently playing settings by four of us (along with some parts that were commissioned out for competition). It's been great for the composer to understand the bigger picture of the music, and it's been good for the corps to experience a couple different perspectives/styles. And boy, did we find some hidden talent!

-Kimberly

[Craig Weston]

What everybody has to Realize is that somtimes when The Skill Level isn't there, or the the time to write a new score for a tune isn't available, a modified version of any massed band setting will do the trick. If people didn't like thoose settings, why have they lasted this long then???

Craig Weston
L/D Big Rock Gr. 4

[Kimberly Rudge]

Originally posted by Craig Weston:
...If people didn't like thoose settings, why have they lasted this long then???Generally because we're being lazy, as the thread title implies. Customized settings can be simple - it should not really have much to do with the skill level of playing. If the pipers are taking the time and energy to learn and memorize new tunes, so should we.

Now, I say generally because the matter of the writing of the settings is mentioned again, and with good reason. I'm sure there are many groups out there in various circumstances that discourage the production of new scores: lack of compositional ability/experience, little funds to hire them out, limited resources to learn, having no time, etc. Perhaps resources like this forum will help us share scores, if that's what it's coming down to.

FWIW - Kimberly

[Pete Walen]

Ah - here's a contradiction, eh? Craig has a point - If the "skill level is not there" that can indeed limit what the corps can play. If the limit is in the lead, or who ever is writing scores for the corps, that is a slightly different question.

The answer, however, lies in pushing yourself and your corps beyond where you think you can play NOW. In grade 4 (and 5) scores that can have the daylights played out of them, without being terribly difficult, will give the sound that is expected AND will set up expectations for the future.

I know of at least one band in my broad area that is playing the same score for tunes for the last 15 years at the least. That is not the way to advance your corps.

Push the limits - get some instruction from a higher grade player. It needn't be J. Reid Maxwell or Buzz Brown - it could be the lead from the grade 3 or grade 2 band that is a few hours away.

Another thing to remember is that being a great drummer does not by definition make them a good teacher. Try and find someone who has taught with success recently.

Now then, to a couple of points made earlier.

Mike's comment on diluting the published Duthart scores - my view is, to learn to play them, you must understand what is implied in them. There are subtle nuances which may, or may not, be expressed on the printed page. If you do not understand these, then you never will make these scores "musical" - a common complaint I've heard from some people. My response is to find a teacher who DOES inderstand them - preferably one who studied under Alex who can give you the insight you need. It is one thing to swap a flam for a drag - it is another to "almost" play an accented tizz-diddle phrase that you really don't understand.

For Mike's other points -

For corps that want to advance, I see a few possibilities:
• have an experienced composer write scores for your corps
• bring him/her in to teach the corps how to play and express the scores...videos and recordings are a decent lower cost stand-by.
• have your LD take lessons from an experienced player in the fine art of writing a score
• encourage your local association to sponsor a composition workshop.
• have a mentor help you during your learning process

Spot on, Mike. Well said. (So I lifted them and copied them here!)

To Duncan's point of stagnation across the grades - I tend to agree. There are many bands in grade 3 and 2 where the corps has a set number of moves/riffs/whatever under their mitts where they can just nail them in any configuration. Many times these are the moves that the LD really likes - and so uses, naturally enough. After a while, though these moves need some freshening, no? A little extra added to them to keep them from becoming stale.

I'd suggest listening to your competition - not listening for mistakes, but listening for ideas they are trying to execute. (Nothing like stomping on your rivals by playing their own "cool move" better than they do...) Lower grade guys listen in particular to the upper grade bands. Study what they are doing. Talk to people - most of them won't bite, at least not too hard!

OK - Rant bit set off.

Good luck at Barrie, Oberlin and wherever else you might be competing this weekend.

Cheers -

[duncan]

Some good points.
The same catalog of rudiments incorporated into the massed band scores can be rearranged into scores that fit the tunes with less syncopation. This does not require a more skillful corps, just a desire to listen to the pipe tune and try to compliment it rather than syncopate around it.
A simplified version of the approach is as follows:
Write the pipe tune out without the grace notes and play it back as if a bass or tenor score. Next, fill in held notes with rolls or other passages and ensure that all the accents are complimenting the phrasing of the pipes. Finally, play it back many times with the a piper or recording of the pipe tune to see if there are places where some syncopation would offer some drive, or if it is too busy or too bare.
I can not help but have in the back of my mind a platonic version of the massed band scores. If a band plays them too badly I am unimpressed and wonder why they don't try something more simple. If a band plays them too well I wonder why they don't bother seeking out better-fitting arrangements.
I agree with Mike. There was, afterall, only one Alex Duthart, and it was his whole approach that made him great, not simply technical ability. He knew the pipe tunes better than other drummers, and his scores reflect that.
I guess the point is that custom scores, even if they are more simple than massed band scores, will add an element of surprise and boost ensemble points.
The massed band scores are an important benchmark in pipeband drumming. They allow a player to recognize when s/he has mastered the catalog, but notice they are not called 'The Grade 4 Competition Scores.'

[Petra_A]

Very enlightening discussion! If bands and score writers within the piping community are turning to recycled and pre-existing material to the loss of some musicality within individual songs and scores, how would it be accepted and how often is it practiced in the world of the pipe band to seek musical and stylistic inspiration outside of the piping idiom?

[Thriller]

I play with a small band called Stirling Bridge Pipe Band in San Diego that just plays massed band scores we don't compete or anything but I figure it's cause we still have beginners in the band but it's getting annoying that they've been working on the 4/4 and 3/4 for almost a year now, but I can tell some have been working really hard. www.stirlingbridgepipeband.org (http://www.stirlingbridgepipeband.org)
We are going to compete next year but I know were going to end up playing massed band scores :mad:

[Davies]

Wow, Interesting conversation. I agree that in many bands, esp those who have a busy performance schedule, writing, finding, and learning new scores isn't a priority. It's sad that new scores may be sacrificed for the sake of a concert. One of the things my band does, is everyone (just about) writes some. Not all of it "makes the cut", and it changes alot between out first drafts and walking up to the line, but everyone has a role in the score, dynamics, expression.

Perfect example of this (and one that you leads might want to try on your corps), is me because I've been out of the "scene" for a year or two, and had only been with Ben Nevis for a couple of months. My lead laid out the pipe scores for a MSR next year, and said "You get to write one, pick." (Hmmmm, Susan MacLeod or Mrs. MacPherson of I....it was a tough choice).

Either way, even the one snare who dosen't really write scores comes up with ideas during the first few practices and comes up with many good ideas which are often incorporated into the scores.

It's important to keep an open enviroment in the corps, and encourage all (particularily young or newer members) to write. Too many bands are dominated by one or two composers, and that leads to a drum nazi effect, and that can lead to Grade Camping.

Enough rambling, Cheers!

CHris Davies

[Go Cadets]

One has to take in account the grade level that a given corps is at. A greenhorn grade V corps SHOULD be learning the rudiments and massed band beatings FIRST! That's not lazy; it's common sense. How many V corps can play the massed band scores competently? As a grade V corps desires self improvement, it should look to move to scores written specific to the competition tunes. An attempt at midsection fugal texture should be attempted at this time at the appropriate difficulty level.

Grade IV is different. NO MASSED BAND SCORES WHATSOEVER SHOULD BE USED. It should be all original music at a distinctly highler level of difficulty.

If one is unable to write scores and adequately teach them to the rest of the line, that band should seek out a regular PAID instructor/arranger. It will make all the difference in the world.

[3 beats]

A "PAID instructor"? I'm sure that if any drummer out there was struggling to write or compose scores then all he/she would have to do is post a plea for help on this or any other site and the drumming community would help in some shape or form.

[Go Cadets]

Yes-A PAID INSTRUCTOR! Does one not pay for individual lessons? Does not one pay for workshops? What's wrong with having a gradeI/Open player "on the payroll" to teach and arrange drum scores on a regular basis? There are a lot of lower grade bands out there that could really benefit from consistent, quality instruction.

Should said instructor, at his own cost, be expected to travel, write, and teach for free? That's ludicrous!

I'm not saying that it is wrong to seek out your drumming brethren for help, but honestly, are you going to give your competition all your secrets? Give me a break! You are going to do everything in your power to maintain a competitive edge.

That said, the benefit of a paid instructor is his/her motivation. It's not competition driven. It is money motivated. To that end, you will receive a greater degree of attention than a volunteer.

[Drew McPheeters]

Originally posted by copland28601:
Grade IV is different. NO MASSED BAND SCORES WHATSOEVER SHOULD BE USED. It should be all original music at a distinctly highler level of difficulty.Please keep in mind that Grade 4 is entry level for most associations.

Are you/ave you been a Cavie?

[Go Cadets]

I'm not telling you what splooie means!!!!! :wink: giggle GO CAVIES! GO CADETS! GO SHOTTS!

[Paul Wood]

One thing that I think needs to be mentioned is that there are a ton of books full of piping music which makes it easier for pipers to change their music.

For bands who are more novice, and don't have any great score composers, it is pretty easy to just play the same old drum scores as these are the ones that they have access to. A lot of drummers play Duthart scores as they are readily available. A lot of people have access to Reid Maxwell scores, I have about 10 so they are going to be played. This brings me to another point. If you look at a lot of the drumming books, many of the same tunes are in them. Duthart Book 1 and Something Old, Something New by the Browns both have the following, Lord Alexander Kennedy, Royal Scottish Piper's Society, The Conundrum, The Haughs of Cromdale, Glasgow Week in Hamburg, Cptn Colin Campbell, Lachlan MacPhail.

Unfortunately to bands who don't have the ability or the resources, there are not a lot of books available and those that are available contain a lot of the same tunes. I can't find my Jim Kerr book or I'd compare that with the above.

Many of the lower grade bands can't play a Duthart score (or even shouldn't play one) and there are few books with music they can play so what options do they have?