View Full Version : Lawrie Military Contract
11-28-2003, 07:27 AM
Does anybody know when Lawrie got the British Army contract and how many years did they hold it? I've looked around the net for the info but no luck :shrug: . If someone out there could enlighten me I would appreciate it. I am coming into possession of an Ebony Army Lawrie stand and was wondering how one would go about dating it.
Originally posted by Okayama Piper:
was wondering how one would go about dating it.
the best way is to first make eye contact and then ask it, followed up by being nice to its parents.
Sorry....I just couldn't resist ( it's friday and I'm tired)
11-28-2003, 08:33 AM
If they are ebony, they're going to be really early or pre-1900 pipes. If you can post some pictures, or email them to me once you get the pipes that would help out. I put a Ross bag on a set of ebony Lawries on Monday night. The ivory work and bores are almost identical to some Hendersons I've seen from 1905/06.
11-28-2003, 12:41 PM
There never was a 'government contract' for any bagpipe, drum, or equipment maker for any regimental pipe band. Each regiment paid for outfitting the pipes and drumes from the Officers' Mess fund, which continues to this day. The MOD doesn't pay a penny for anything to do with the pipe band in ANY Scottish regiment. The only MOD contracts these days are for uniform pieces for the ranks.
Lawrie had a Royal Warrant (by appointment to Edward VIII) as bagpipe maker they received in 1937. Hardie had a Royal Warrant they received about 1960. I don't think there has been one given out since then. Most 'royal warrants' were superseded by the 'Queen's Award for Industry' which was begun around 1970.
11-28-2003, 01:34 PM
Iain Iím not sure that the MOD pays or have paid for nothing. In Highland regiments the MOD paid for the 'company' pipers and the Officers Mess fund paid for the rest. In Lowland regiments I think there was no payment from MOD. Although there was no Royal Warrant to supply there was a list of approved suppliers which continues to this day
11-28-2003, 04:19 PM
JRC! Mighty funny :lol:
I thank you all for the information. I guess rather than the fact they were made for the military, the material will be the key in dating them.
11-28-2003, 07:19 PM
A Royal Warrant was a personal grant from an individual member of the royal family; it had NOTHING whatsoever to do with the government. ZERO. ZIP. BUPKUS. It was a way for the royals to promote certain business such as haberdashers, tailors, purveyors, and the like, and was used as an advertising cachet. Any firm having a royal warrant could and would display same on its products, advertising, and correspondance. It was a sort of 'one-upsmanship' thing for those who had it over those who didn't. Harrods, Marks & Sparks, and Fraser's all have the Royal Warrant....
Government contracts were and are given to those firms who bid the lowest for the job. Makes you wonder, doesn't it, when your bum is on the line and you're protected by the cheapest equipment money can buy....
12-02-2003, 03:11 AM
There never was a 'government contract' for any bagpipe, drum, or equipment maker for any regimental pipe band. Each regiment paid for outfitting the pipes and drumes from the Officers' Mess fund, which continues to this day. The MOD doesn't pay a penny for anything to do with the pipe band in ANY Scottish regiment. But they do have "preferred supplier agreements."
12-02-2003, 04:06 AM
In the 2nd.WW I was issued with Stark Pipes. When I joined the Cameron Highlanders of Ottawa. When the 3rd. Battalion was formed we were issued with Lawrie Pipes. which my son plays to this day. A beautiful sounding set of Pipes.
12-02-2003, 08:05 AM
Thanks for your contribution to our freedom. More appreciated these days with all the crap that is going on around the world.
12-02-2003, 08:31 AM
Iain, you know that Queen Victoria's piper Uilleam Ross had a contract to supply the five kilted regiments of the time with pipes, and worked with Starck on this - who paid for them?
12-02-2003, 10:00 AM
If they are ebony, they're going to be really early or pre-1900 pipes. Mmmm.... Not so sure about that. There are many examples of ebony Lawrie's that date from about 1925 thru to 1935. In fact Dave Marshall just sold a set that were army issued, button mounted, half-silver Lawrie's that were dated 1935.
12-03-2003, 04:49 PM
Iain - I think Harrods no longer has a Royal warrant. I recall that these were not "renewed" and Harrods suffered the indignity of having to pull the warrants down from the building (by crane), which of course was widely photographed by the press... Maybe it was only some of the warrants which weren't renewed.
12-03-2003, 05:14 PM
Iain, you know that Queen Victoria's piper Uilleam Ross had a contract to supply the five kilted regiments of the time with pipes, and worked with Starck on this - who paid for them? There was never an official contract, and was quite a point of contention between Ross and the established pipe makers of his time, like MacDougall and Glen. His position as Queen's Piper had a lot more clout when he held the position than it ever has since his time. Peter Henderson, the Glens, and Lawrie all made sure of that after Ross died. He was probably the only Sovereign's Piper who made a commercial success out of his appointment.
The government only paid for company pipers from 1928 on; ALL piping and pipe band expenses were covered by the Officers' Mess fund, which is quite substantial in some regiments, and virtually nonexistant in others. One regiment has a fund which provides the Pipes and Drums with over 40K pounds per year; another regiment's mess fund only provides ten percent of that.
When Peter Henderson got going in the 1880s he started supplying regiments with kit for the pipe bands; after Ross' death in 1891 he really made inroads in selling pipes as well, and the position of Queen's Piper never again had the same commercial importance.