Competition Tempos - What's the deal?

[J.R.]

Can anyone give me an idea of what kind of tempos (in terms of BPS) that judges are looking for in the higher grades for MSRs and Strathspey and reels?

Following an attempt to get back to competing last year, I had a rude awakening when I learned that tunes are being played -much- slower than I played in previous years. The judge, who was disgusted (!) by my up-tempo playing gave me a very long speech as to why fast tempos are unacceptable and went on to bury my performance (which was technically well played on an excellent instrument) at the bottom of the pile.

My question - Aren't at least strathspeys and reels dance tunes? Do they lose that character after entering the overly sanitized world of GHB solo comp? Is the competitor allowed to make an aesthetic choice (as in practically every other art form), or are they limited to what I'm beginning to see as a very narrow strip of the "acceptable" that judges use when determining the winner of the day. It would appear to me (and I hope others) that there is one pitch, one tempo, and probably one tartan that will win the hearts and score sheets of our "unbiased" judges.

Thoughts?

JR

[the fishiologist]

It's true - when I took up competing this year I was pretty astonished at how slow everything was - but I was under the impression that it was all played that way in order to nail the execution, even in grade 1. In Pro, they tend to play tempos more in line with the intended use of the tune (jigs, hornpipes etc..). However, if you nailed the exceution AND the musicality while playing up-tempo, I don't believe the judge should mark you down for it. I was led to believe that you play to the tempo at which you are able to execute all of the technique and musicality properly. (me, I should probably go even slower as I continue to get comments like, "very musical performance, but execution was flawed in places"... *sigh* technique - my old nemesis!)

[Christoph Kresse]

JR,
to be honest I kind of gave up on practicing my competition sets with a particular tempo. All I know is that the judges usually like the 2/4's a little on the slow side and some nice expression with the Strathspey. Reels are also not supposed to be rushed, same with the Horns and Jigs.
Sometimes I will listen to cd's of top performers a couple days before the contest to get into the "groove".
CK

[Go Habs]

[QUOTE] It would appear to me (and I hope others) that there is one pitch, one tempo, and probably one tartan that will win the hearts and score sheets of our "unbiased" judges. [/QUOUTE]

I wouldn't throw all judges into this category, but I do think a majority of judges tend to reward cautious clean play more than musical play.

I think fishologist is on the right track. Everyone is so worried about flawless technique that music kind of gets pushed to the background. Why risk a brisk tempo and some expression in MSRs if you might miss a gracenote? It's not ideal but it seems to be the inevitable biproduct of most piping being totally focused around competition.

JR's "very narrow strip of acceptable" is simply a huge bias towards great execution and a great bagpipe over expression, which leaves a lot of good players with mediocre hands off the prize list.

[Don LePage]

hmmm....., one pitch, one tempo? Probably not, but it can be frustrating if the pitch and tempo desired isn't the one that you are playing. 2/4 marches, as well as the other styles, are a game of controll and musical sensivity. At an amature level, much of the sensitivity is lost by a tempo that is to fast. A tune that is well controlled and expressed will flow better than a quicker tune that is not well expressed.

THe worlds greatest piper c.d. of Roddy MacLeod demonstrates this. His marches are at a slower tempo than lets say Allister Gilless' marches, but they are just dripping with music.

Remember, when we compete we want to make the judge all warm and squishy with the beauty of the music we just performed for him/her. If we aren't willing to adjust at least a little to what they want to hear, then why compete? The judge generally does know a thing or two about pipe music.

Cheers, Don LePage

[J.R.]

Originally posted by Don LePage:
The judge generally does know a thing or two about pipe music.
One would like to think.

I am in no way an advocate of the up-tempo playing that many would associate with a 14 year old who just learned The Clumsy Lover and can't wait to play it into the ground. Crushed duoblings, missed grips, and ill-formed throws should be the bane of every piper. And for the sake of my contention, let's take that as given.

My concern is that we are growing increasingly sterile and homogeneous as a musical community. There is more than one "correct" form of playing. What works for Roddy MacLeod works for Roddy and those who appreciate his style. Fair enough. That doesn't mean that the tunes played by an Alasdair Gillies, Anne Grey, Angus MacColl, or Gordon Duncan are inferior. They are just different.

I find in my own branch, the EUSPBA, that we are becoming sFU'd - trying to emulate a style and sound (and some might argue band culture) that is somehow more acceptable or judge friendly. It's a mindset that I think is trickling down from bands to solos, and it's a shame.

Don't get me wrong - SFU = Great. Roddy MacLeod = Great. But there are so many styles of playing! Are competitions ony around to asess one type of playing style? Doesn't that limit the idea of "expression"?

If this board is any kind of example, pipers seem to be very into authenticity - ie vintage pipes, band pedigree, Maccrimmon lineages, the name of Terry Lee's first cat,ad infinitum. A student of Scottish or Irish (or Breton, Galician, English, Italian, etc.) history and culture as it relates to piping might go so far as to suggest that our rigid adherence to certain standards is the least "authentic" of all.


So then, I ask again, what's wrong with playing a tune up tempo if you can play it up tempo?

JR


PS I realize I'm being a little contentious, but I'd like to spark some debate.

[Don LePage]

JR, IN the words of the great John McLellan,before he played a piobreached at a recital,"you might here some things done differently in this tune. I played it the way I was supposed to on the competition circuit for 20 years, and now I will play it the way I want to."
There is nothing wrong with playing a tune up-tempo. Hey, you can play it any way you want. However the reaction you get will depend on who is listening. You could play it fast for a croud of non pipers and more that likely everyone will love it. In a competitive situation, there is going to be a standard of right and wrong. If you play a march too slow for a judge that wants to hear it faster, you won't do very well either. (and may get a lecture about how slow tempos are bringing about the downfall of mankind).

It does seem true that over the course of years, tempos have gotten slower. Over the course of the 1900's all sorts of things are done different. Pipe band pitch is way up, the whole idea of the medly has developed as the technical abilities of the players advanced, technology advances have helped make it easier to have a steady instrument, the scale has changed(no more really sharp g and d). Heck, willie ross played like the wind. So, are faster tempos closer to being "authentic"?

There may be a certain sameness to the musical style of today, but changes happen slowly.

Oh, just out of curiosity, what did the judge say in his seech about those disgusting fast tempos?
Cheers, Don LePage

[Go Habs]

[QUOTE]My concern is that we are growing increasingly sterile and homogeneous as a musical community.[QUOTE]

I would agree that competitive piping is pretty limiting. However looking at piping outside of the competitive scene I personally think there are some pretty exciting and talented performers pushing the boundaries with their own unique styles. Fred Morrison, Chris Armstrong, Finlay MacDonald, Gordon Duncan etc. all do great things with old and new music.

[QUOTE]So then, I ask again, what's wrong with playing a tune up tempo if you can play it up tempo?[QUOTE]

If you like it up tempo nothing. Should you expect the judge to like it well I don't know. The idea of competing will limit the music in itself because even the best judges will have a bias to a certain style. I don't mean that in a bad way but you like what you like, and that will reflect in judges decisions no matter how impartial he/she tries to be.

[QUOTE]our rigid adherence to certain standards is the least "authentic" of all.[QUOTE]

This could almost be it's own thread. I guess the tunes and styles we've inherited would ideally be judged on their merit, not who played them, who wrote them, what band won with them. I personally don't think there is anything wrong with playing traditional tunes the way they've been handed down. However the piping community also has to be able to move forward with new music and ideas, and I think you are seeing that, but just not so much in competition.

This is a really interesting thread.

[PipePlayr]

I think J.R. nailed it on the head. There is a standard for those who wish to compete and the judge decides what that standard is. To receive good marks one must meet the standard. Expression? In the competition the judge also decides how the tune should be expressed and if the piper meets that standard. There certainly should be excellence in our craft and proper execution of embellishments is one avenue toward that goal. But...

In all of these standards, where is room for the musician's heart? Am I playing a tune on the boards for me...or for the judge? Exactly why are we competing? Is it so we can play a tune exactly letter-perfect...to what end?

This leads to another question...why do we play the noble instrument to begin with? Is it so we CAN play tunes letter-perfect...? Or is it because the music speaks to us in our soul and we wish to capture some of the joy, valor, courage or sadness the composer may have had in mind when he wrote the tune?

I guess it just depends on what you want out of your music.

[TGOS]

J.R - sounds like this particular judge has no place judging - what a load of rubbish.

There is no doubt tempos have slowed down, due to the safety first, technique is everything brigade. When I was growing up listening to Gordon Walker, Alisdair Gillies etc I could hardly keep up with them and obviously tried to emulate them.

There is "too fast", but generally speaking, you should aim to attack a tune, play with a bit of bite and agression. Unfortunately, there has been a push towards really safe playing which would put me to sleep. Playing with a bit of lift should see you ok. It should also make the performance stick out amongst the plethora of piping by numbers performances you tend to hear all over the place.

As a point of interest, I recall the judging panel at one of the recent major solo events complaining that far too many players were playing too safely.

Listen to Angus MacColl, Gordon Walker, Chris Armstong, Alisdair Gillies - this is how light music should sound and it certainly isn't safe or slow.

[Dale D. Brown]

J.R.

I don't know how long you were off from competing. Be that as it may I don't believe things have changed too much. I don't know which grade level you were competing at (that would also have a degree of influence). All things considered I'm coming down on the side of the judge. You asked the rhetorical question aren't strathspeys & reels dance tunes? As a competing piper I would expect you to know the difference. If you want to play as a dance play 'The Devil in the Kitchen', 'Orange and Blue' or 'The Keel Row'. Play with those strathspeys 'Kate Dalrymple', 'High Road to Linton' or 'Jock Wilson's Ball'. That is DANCE music. When playing in competition you are demonstrating your technical abilities to express the music at a commensurate tempo. I don't know where you came to the idea that 'Arniston Castle', 'Blair Drummond' or 'Bob of Fettercairn', 'Smith of Chilliechassie', 'Mrs. MacPherson of Inveran' or 'MacAllister's Dirk' and the like were ever "dance Music". You asked about tempos. I would say that a competive caliber 2/4 march could be played between 65 to 73 bpm. Proper technical execution will always trump tempo (read that as speed). When one tries to play at a tempo that exceeds their technical capability headlights, technique, expression and whatever else you have going for you simply go to hell in a handbasket. You seem to imply that you are the exception. There is a point where tempo is "too fast". This applies to you and me as well as a John Burgess or Gordon Duncan. Even if we have the technical capabilities to do it. Piping performance and expression is not a speed contest. Rather than cast aspersions on the judge and his/her knowledge I would say they at least the judge saw good potential in your abilities (properly harnessed) and took the time to counsel with you. The judge could have simply dismissed you out of hand, but he or she didn't. As I read your comments I think you rather than the judge needs an attitude adjustment.

Dale Brown

[J.R.]

Dale,

How about a compromise?

I'll play dance tunes in the kitchen and for dancers, and when you're on the boards you can play tachum excercises and amachs. How's that sound? :wink:

I don't know how things are done in Michigan; I don't play there. I play in the Northeast. I don't claim to be a great piper, but I'd like to think that those who know me can vouch for me. From my perspective, Dale, I think that solo pipers in grade I and II (and probably the rest - I haven't been listening) are, in general, playing too slowly. Big movements and dragging tempo aren't my idea of musicality. I would go on to say that this washed out style is detrimental to the future of piping...

But -my- idea of what is musical or detrimental isn't at the heart of my argument. Perhaps I should try to be clearer on this point - I question what judges are actually judging. I think there is an attempt to preserve "proper" playing, which is all well and good. But this propriety is at the sake of views which are as valid as the "65 to 73 bpm" that your metronome lives at. Is skill being judged? Taste? Ability to do what one is told? Because if getting to Open is just a lot of jumping through hoops, I'll go watch the collies. And after a while, a lot of people paying to come to the games and keeping the competitions alive will be watching with those lovable dogs with me while soloists are clomping about the back nine playing a very clean (and very boring) shibboleth-spey.

And Dale, there are delicious fried Mars bars by the collies.

Food for thought.


JR

[Chairman Mao]

JR:

What a great response to Dale!

I'll play dance tunes in the kitchen and for dancers, and when you're on the boards you can play tachum excercises and amachs. How's that sound? Hilarious!!!

Tell you what: if playing a march at 65-73 on my metronome is where it's at, I'll go watch the collies and the tug-o-war with JR. For Christ's sakes, do you really want to play a march at 65, Dale? It's a march, for crying out loud, not a trying-to-have-a-crap but my-fibre-is-low contest.....

And I'm not one of those guys who's been ripping things. I'm as guilty as the next for safe playing.

The major comment I've had this past year on my sheets was: Nice tune, good fingers, but the tempo needs to come up to find the music in the tune.

We're playing music at the end of the day, not pounding a dead pig contest, which is what it will sound like if the playing is slow and methodical.


Scott

[JRM]

Play it clean but express it well. If you need to play a particular tune slowly for clean execution, but kill the expression in the process, you need to choose an easier tune. No point bragging about playing difficult tunes if they sound like crap. The competition style 2/4 March is typically played a bit slower in lower grades than one would naturally expect given that it is called a march. The execution is more complicated and you're not leading troops at an inspection or into battle, so strict adherence to an arbitrary metronome marking is not appropriate. Play it at a tempo your ability will allow, with good expression. If it's too slow, either pick it up to the appropriate tempo to express it well, or choose an easier tune that you can handle. If you're playing grade 4 and your tune list sounds like it belongs in grade 1, chances are you need to re-evaluate your tune list.
Nothing quite as excruciating as listening to a grade 3 band play Shott's MSR or medley. Just my humble educated opinion.

[ratherbpiping]

The way I look at it is there is compromise here. Depending on your audiance it may be wise to shift your compromise point. If you are playing for a group of people who don't know the difference betwween a doubling and a grip, you may want to spice it up with tempo. If you are playing for a judge who wants to hear clarity and expression, you may want to slow it down a bit.

Allistaire Gillies CD is interesting as it is played in "Competitive Style" The tempos are down. Often other CD's are less technically oriented and the tempos would be up.

I had an interesting comment once that "although the tempo did not appear to cause issue with my execussion", the judge thought the expression would improve at a slightly slower tempo. My target tempo was 72. Next competition The comment was This tune should be slightly livelier. target tempo was 68. Now actual tempos may have been very different from the target.

[john flynn]

A piper in a band I used to belong to once tried his hand at a solo contest. He played the march slowly, and every doubling and throw "technically" proficient. There was however, absolutely no music in the tune. None whatsoever. The judge simply put at the bottom of his score sheet:

If I were you, I would seriously consider taking up the tuba.

True. All true.

John

[Dale D. Brown]

J.R.

I enjoyed your response, but now we have to get to a discussion of what I believe your initial point is. To capture it from my take on your thread comment it is - You played your 2/4 march (and strathspey & reel?) at what you called an up tempo. I also understand you to say that you played with good technical execution on a very good sounding instrument. In other words, from your standpoint the judge could not have any quarrel with your execution, tone & tuning. The judge thus was coming from a viewpoint of strickly tempo. I am unclear from your comments whether expression was also a point of contention. Your conclusion was that the subjectivity of judges (this judge's attitude being a crosssection for all judges) is so narrow regarding tempo that the musical creativity of competitive piping is being stiffled. If this judging attitude prevails it will put the future of competitive piping in jeopardy. Does this accurately reflect your viewpoint?

I went on further to give a response to an intitial question you asked about tempo (bpm) to competition marches of 65 - 73 bpm. Scott found this amusing - 65 bpm being good timing for a beating the dead pig contest, etc. Scott admits to having his own timing issues. For the record Scott I would agree with you that 65 bpm could be considered draggy in some grades - Maybe 2 and above. For grade 3 and lower 65 bpm may well be within or at the top end of players technical abilities to handle.

J.R., what neither you nor Scott has given is what your position on tempo is. To just say upbeat leaves no one with any idea where you exactly stand on the tempo issue. While I do not care for your characterization of the judge (that is another issue that can be addressed at a later time) I am quite willing to listen to your ideas on what tempos are appropriate and creativity in the music by performers.

For the sake of reference you might want to listen and time out the playing of the best players in the world today. I am talking about (to name just a few) Angus MacColl, Willie McCallum, Gordon Walker, Robert Wallace, Jack Lee. If you do you will find that an average 2/4 competition march is being played at 70 - 72 bpm. For Scott's information you will find that Jack Lee's rendition of 'Bonny Ann' on his "Greatest Piper Series" CD is played at 67 bpm. J. R., say where you are coming from and what you propose for ideas and maybe this thread can move forward meaningfully and without contention.

Dale Brown

[Claxon]

I think this discussion would be over if a judge would simply weigh in... Chris Hamilton perhaps, since we are talking primarily about EUSPBA.

[J.R.]

Dale,

I need to put in the amount of time writing my posts as you seem to be in reading them!

I'm not going to beat a dead horse, just state what I think to be the case: There isn't much room to go outside the box while on the boards. I guess we really do have to play to the judge, as there isn't going to be anyone other than a few initiates around to listen.


Originally posted by Claxon:
I think this discussion would be over if a judge would simply weigh in... Chris Hamilton perhaps, since we are talking primarily about EUSPBA. Or it would muddy the waters even more.

For every judge that might weigh in on the issue of propriety, one could bring in a musician who'd be willing to refute it. Uilleann pipers come to mind most readily. This may shock metronome owners everywhere, but some uilleann pipers vary their tempos -in the middle of the tune-. They don't even play the tune the same way -every- time they play it! Crazy, I know. And how they manage to keep from forgetting what they're playing without marching in circles is as astonishing as it is diturbing. Thank goodness the Irish Sea is keeping that kind of nonsense away. Or else... well, we might just lose touch with our paramilitary roots or, even worse, start wearing trousers!!!

What will we do if we're forced to play our instrument unarmed or, even worse, in cotton?

[Joe Battle]

Hello All,

I've seen this discussed a number of times. New on pipes, yet to compete.

Seems judges are inconsistent with their druthers, yes? Are there any written rules / instructions / specifications / Guidelines / stated objectives / for judging? Objective analysis of all aspects of the performance, not personal preferences of the judge, should prevail, aye? If an artist wants to play a reel at 125bpm, but the judge likes them at 90bpm, I don't think the judge's preference should be part of the analysis. If at 125bpm there are some technical errors, well, score them as technical errors, not as "tempo too fast". Am I missing something, or shouldn't it be that objective and simple?

And, any judge who suggests you take up the tuba needs to be removed as a judge. What are the rules on what a judge can and can't write?

Just my newbie thoughts. I'd like to see this thread receive lots of judge input, as someone stated above.

Good Day. :hatoff:

[Iain Sherwood]

Years ago the COP published a pamphlet entitled A Guide to the Judging of Piping, which is a gem of advice for judges. Everyone should have a copy. I've tried to get some from the COP but they seem to have not reprinted it recently....

[Joe Battle]

Woke up this morning and discussed this thread with the wife. She reminded me of numerous subjective judging instances:
fencing "right of way".....first forward movement, or first arm extension?
Or "your horses head was too high".

So, it appears that my earlier post is quite naive. Judging can't be purely objective, can it?

Even if a judge has a rule to follow:
"Acceptable pitch will be between 460 - 480htz."
"Acceptable Reel Tempo will be between 85-125bpm."
A judge will still be human, have a preference....
Is there an "Objecive" and "Subjective" portion of a scoresheet? Are scores weighed identically from both sides of the sheet?

Don't mean to hijack the thread, just trying to add to the discussion.

Joe :hatoff:

[Chairman Mao]

Dale;

Greetings - nice to meet you. Sorry if I came across as a bit of a jerk.

You make some very good points about where Willie or Jack or Bill or Duncan are playing their marches on studio recordings and discs from competitions. Generally, I guess Willie is playing a competition style march at around 72 or 74. Most guys seem to land here.

Roddy MacLeod on the other hand, hits them at a more blistering pace usually - maybe 76 or so.

My issue is that setting a number like 65-72 to a competition isn't really effective. Mostly because we don't have anything specific to look at: we've got all sorts of people with their competition tune on the go right now suddenly poking their head in here and seeing that 65-72 is good (and generally it is, Dale, I agree with you that towards 72 makes for a decent march tempo) but doing a quick search on what a lot of folks are considering to play in grades 5 and 4 and 3 (from this forum) you'll see tunes like this listed:

Walter Douglas.
Seige of Delhi.
Weary Maid (Cutten Bracken).
Conundrum.
Farewell to Oban.

Tunes, that is, based on the 8th and 1/4 note, not the 8th and 16th... So if somebody comes out onto the field with Seige or Walter or Conundrum at 65 (or even 72), we're in for a bit of a slow haul. My feeling is the tune will die.

So here's my point, at the end of the day: Let's look at the music first, decide if we can keep the spirit of the tune alive by approaching the tune in a lively manner, and then look at what the tempo seems to be. (Chances are, we'll see the march based on the 8th and 16th note somewhere around 72, and the march based on the 8th and 1/4 note somewhere 80 to 90.) If the tune feels alive at 76, great. If it seems alive at 67, super. But if it's a bit dead at 67 and wants to be around 75, then we better rethink what we're doing instead of just saying "Well, it's in the ball park because that guy on the internet said 65 should be fine..."

And that's my fear, when guys begin to stare at their metronome instead of listening to their music. Tom Anderson, a great judge here on the Ontario circuit, has one major complaint that I've heard him say so many times (and he has said it to me several times, too): "The work you've put into the tune is showing. But you forgot that you're playing music. It's too slow and too safe and finally boring." This comment usually comes from the march (say Clan MacColl played in Grade 3, for reference) being hit at about 65. The tune stalls out. (But then he grabs you by the elbow and honestly says, "Well Done! Your technique is improving and your pipe sounded wonderful!")

All this competition stuff hurts my brain. From the band to the solos, geez...

Anyway: Does that illustrate, to some degree, where I'm standing on this?


Scott

[toutie gallowa]

Perhaps we should have a technique Judge who is well verse in the minutae of piping technique and a musical judge who can score on the musicality of the piece and how enjoyable it was to listen too, or even the audience could do it if there is one.

It probably goes against the grain, but its a musical instrument being played, technique is important but I would say the musical aspect has to edge it out. I would rather hear a very musical MSR with a couple of minor fluffs than a staid but technically better MSR every time (particularly at lower grades, the top pipers should manage both).

But then you could argue that competition pipimg isnt really about playing entertaining music but striving to be technically perfect, which is a shame.

I apologise for jumping into the topic ! but I couldnt resist.

[Dale D. Brown]

The matter of 2/4 march tempo (we'll leave other time signature tempos for another day) is admittedly very hard (if not impossible) is pinpoint down to an exact pace. There are too many variables involved. The playing abilities of each individual player goes a long way to dictate what control each player can exhibit at the different tempos being played. Scott has brought up another very important point for us to consider,i.e. the complexity of the tune involved. 'The 79's Farewell to Gibraltar', 'Walter Douglas' or 'The Atholl and Breadalbane Gathering' can be played very pleasantly at a higher pace because they are less technically demanding tunes. In contrast, 'Parker's Welcome to Perthshire' or 'Kantara to el. Arish' will naturally come off at a slower pace because of the demanding techical execution involved.

When we listen to a 2/4 march being played the proper technical execution combined with expression (I believe this is a dirivative of good technique) combined with a relaxed (yet driving pulse) it is one of the most pleasant musical experiences we can have with the pipes. Last year at Georgetown, Ontario I heard a fellow in the open march (I do not know his name, I was told that he was from around the Maxville area) play 'John MacFadyen of Melfort'. This is not an easy march to play from just simply the technique involved. I can't say when I have enjoyed a tune (and John MacFadyen in particular) more than I did his performance. As I type this response I can still picture and hear in my mind the tune. Not rushed and not slow - just total control and command of the tune and the pipe.

Dale Brown

[Chris Hamilton]

Originally posted by Claxon:
I think this discussion would be over if a judge would simply weigh in... Chris Hamilton perhaps, since we are talking primarily about EUSPBA. Well ... it's all subjective ...

I can't say, without actually hearing the performance in question, if the tempo was a minor detriment, a severe detriment, or no detriment at all.

Personally, I like very clean playing with CONTROL - control can be had even at a brisk tempo, if the player is technically capable of executing the rudiments cleanly AND in the proper spot - ie, on the beat. Playing rudiments generally ahead of the beat will result in playing that seems to be "rushed", even if the tempo is not overly fast.

There's no magic formula for determining what exactly tempo is worth in a given performance. The whole package - technique, expression, tone, tuning, musicality, and all that has to be evaulated on a case by case basis. If an F is sharp, how sharp? How much did it detract from that particular tune - was the pipe generally sonorous and true otherwise. Was the playing so outstanding that a bit of a sharp F is a minor distraction? Questions that can't be formally quantified, but rather must be answered on the spot and in context of the grade, the overall standard of play, and all the other factors that make up the performance.

Spoken like a true Libra!

Chris

[Chairman Mao]

Nice response, Chris.

Well thought out and extremely erudite.

I'd like to say say more about what you wrote, but right now I'll just direct anybody else to your post. It pretty much wrapped it up.

Hope everyone has a successful season on the field.

See you in the beer tent!


Scott

[J.R.]

Originally posted by Chris Hamilton:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by Claxon:
<span style="font-weight: bold"> I think this discussion would be over if a judge would simply weigh in... Chris Hamilton perhaps, since we are talking primarily about EUSPBA. Well ... it's all subjective ...

</span></div></div>I'm not really sure what this settled, but I think this topic is best left for other people and times.


"The First Degree of Folly is to conceit oneself wise; the second to profess it" :wink:

JR

[Chris Hamilton]

Originally posted by J.R.:
I'm not really sure what this settled, but I think this topic is best left for other people and times.I'm not out to settle it, I'm out to increase your understanding of the topic.

Chris

[Dale D. Brown]

This has been an interesting thread for everyone to comment on. Yes, at times we (I at least include myself) got a little contentious, but that's piping. At the end we should all remain brothers and sisters with our common love for the great instrument we call "the Great Highland Bagpipe". To bring this thread to a meaningful conclusion for everyone may I suggest an article in the latest edition (April 2005) of the "Piping Times" by Robert Wallace. It is under his regular column "Be a Better Piper". The title of the article is 'Getting Rhythm and Expression Into 'Competition' 2/4 Marches'. For everyone who wants to play in march competitions this article should be required reading. Robert Wallace is one of the best, and he gives some of the inside tips on how to be a better march player.

Dale Brown

[Roger Huth]

Plus learn from Alasdair Gillies on his March, Strathspey &amp; Reel Vol 1 CD-Rom