Dampening Systems

[Scott Niven]

Hi All,

What do you think is the best way to dampen bass/tenor drums?

There's a few methods going - the old strip of guncloth method, square pathces of foam near the centre of the skin, smaller patches around the edge, or some of the mass produced methods like Remo's muffle-rings.
What do you all think/prefer?

[Andrew Adams]

For our bass and tenors we use Remo Muffle Strips. They come in 9' sections. You just peel off the back and place it on the head.

I make a large circle on the inside of the head, all the way around. A few inches from the rim. I got this method from my instructor as that's the way his band (Oran Mor Grade 2) does it.

[Monique Ros]

Personally I stick with the Hosbilt dampening for my Hosbilt. Works great...

Monique

[Ian McLeod]

same here

[Drummer Dave]

What I have found to be the worst way of doing it(and yes...to my great disapointment this is true) is to get yourself a pillow....yes a big honking feather pillow....and stuff it in the drum. You'll find that you get this "wonderful" thump, with about as little ring/resonance as you could imagine. Again NOT RECOMENDED!

[piobgurl]

Have you tried ear plugs? : )

[Andrew Adams]

Originally posted by Drummer Dave:
What I have found to be the worst way of doing it(and yes...to my great disapointment this is true) is to get yourself a pillow....yes a big honking feather pillow....and stuff it in the drum. You'll find that you get this "wonderful" thump, with about as little ring/resonance as you could imagine. Again NOT RECOMENDED! This is the same method I use on my drumset. I LOVE it. :-D

[Scott Niven]

I think the pillow is great on the drum kit, but no quite what we're looking for in the pipe band.

Has anyone tried using the method Scott used to have on tenordrummer.com using the square patch of foam?

[I. B. Bangin']

Let me start by saying that I am a sidedrummer, not a tenor drummer. Also, I don't claim this is the best way, but it is something I tried that seemed to work well.

That being said, when I was DS of my last band, we got new Andante tenor drums. They came with the little strip of puffy dampening fabric draped between the head and rim. It didn't work well. Since it was between the rim and head, it sort of interfered with even head tensioning. I have a friend who is an upholsterer(sp?). I went and selected some of his scrap foam(apparently there are varying compression ratings). I bought a two inch hole saw, put the pilot bit in backwards and put it in my drill. I ground off the teeth and sharpend it to a knife edge on a large sharpening stone. Then I proceeded to cut "marshmallows" or "plugs" inches in dia. and 3 inches long. I had to use silicone spray lube every couple of plugs to keep the hole saw from gripping and tearing the foam. I cut way more plugs than I needed so I wouldn't have to do it again for a long time. I then proceed to glue one between each lug on the top and bottom heads. I glued them so about 1/2 inch was sticking up above the rim, so they were a bit compressed when the head was installed. I used copious amount of silicone from a caulk gun. Let me emphasize that you cannot use too much silicone adhesive. Silicone removes easily, and if you don't use enough, the plugs will fall off inside, especially if the internal rim surface is powder coated. It worked beautifully! If it sounds too dampened, you can remove plugs as necessary. The sound was sweet! Nice sustain, beatiful tone, and great looking(if I do say so myself). :D

Foam degrades, particularly under direct sunlight, so I would keep them out of it as much as possible. I figure the plugs should be replace every couple years, or when the drum starts to sound/tune poorly.

[Monique Ros]

Zach,

this dampening sounds amazingly like the dampening used in Hosbilts.

Between each of the tension rods there is a "marshmellow" both at the top and bottom head.

Monique

[Robbert van Gorp]

We are just using the Remo Muffle Strips / rings, that's enough for the Andantes. I have to say it works great with the pinstripe but don't know how it sounds when using other heads like the fyberskins.

[I. B. Bangin']

Monique,

Was that when Hoss was building them, or Premier? One of my current bands has both bass and tenors that are original Hossbilt. I'm not sure if they have those plugs because they have opaque white heads(Aquarian), so even if they did have a similar dampening, you wouldn't see it. Did they used to ship with clear heads?

[Pete Walen]

Zach - the foam density used by Premier seems to be a little different, but the concept is the same as Craig used - foam marshmallows glued to the shell.

[tenordrummer.com]

Scott,

I can get that information to you if you need it - just drop me a line if you do. The system was used on Shotts' bass drum pre-Hosbilt and also on Strathclyde Police and Bleary & District's bass drums.

[Hossman]

The dampers are available directly from Hosbilt.
e-mail for info.
The system was derived to allow the Tension meter to not give false reading because of support from damping underneath.
Unlike Muff'ls or felt strips, it doesn't interfere with the bearing edge which is key. (That's assuming your drum has good edges to start with)

It also doesn't dampen the center of the head which is where all of the WANTED overtones exist.
The unwanted overtones ( as Hugh likes to call them ) are around the outside of the head.
DO NOT dampen the centre of any head, you'll kill it.

Make sure that you sand off any finish from the inside of your drum before using hot glue. The hot glue sticks well to bare wood not so well to lacquer or polyurethane.

Once you have your dampers in place make any tone changes by head choice. You don't have to change out dampers or add more to change the length of the decay of your drum you only have to experiment with some different weight heads.


Thinner heads = more sustain
Thicker Heads = less sustain

This system also lets you change out heads (which you should be doing at least twice a year) without changing anything on the damping.
Later, HOSS

[Monique Ros]

Hoss,

you mention that changing out heads should be done twice a year. Would that be the same for a beginner?

Monique

[Stewart R. Hogg]

I never found it to be so hard to tune a bass drum. Maybe I'm lucky.

Your best bet is to follow what Hoss is describing or another great bass drummer Mike Cole or Robin Lee I'm sure they have methods in this madness of tuning bass drums.

My method. Foam if needed. The Andante I used last didn't need anything it came overseas tuned.

In the past I would put the whole thing in there and cut away as needed. Eventually it would get there but the big 18 x 28 Andante and others out there are far better these days where less is needed.

Best Regards,
Stewart Hogg

[Mike Cole]

Monique,
Your time and experience as player shouldn't really be a factor...unless you use ball peen hammers for mallets! It really depends on a couple of things: how often you are playing your drum; the conditions in which you've been playing it; the amount of care you give your drum---de-tuning it when traveling, and/or in between engagements, etc.
I've changed heads twice a year...and in those seasons when there weren't a lot of contests; only once.
Mike

[Mike Cole]

Originally posted by StewartH:
I never found it to be so hard to tune a bass drum. Maybe I'm lucky.

Your best bet is to follow what Hoss is describing or another great bass drummer Mike Cole or Robin Lee I'm sure they have methods in this madness of tuning bass drums.

My method. Foam if needed. The Andante I used last didn't need anything it came overseas tuned.

In the past I would put the whole thing in there and cut away as needed. Eventually it would get there but the big 18 x 28 Andante and others out there are far better these days where less is needed.

Best Regards,
Stewart Hogg Thanks Stewart. I disagree with you about what you call luck...you find drums easy to tune due to your years of experience and expertise!

Ever since Hoss developed the system for his drums; it's the method of choice for me. The logic of it is very clear. Anything that interferes with the bearing edge of a drum, has a dramatic/negative effect on its basic tonal and resonant properties. I remember using the Remo Muffle-Rings on tenor drums...thought they were great until I 'saw the light'.
Once the dampening system is in place, you're done. No more guesswork, labor, or added expense of new dampening when you change heads. It's great that Craig still has the system available.

Another thought on changing heads. If you are going for the best possible sound, it is necessary to change them on a regular basis. If you get any gas from the treasurer...ask if the pipers will be playing the same reeds from the previous season. If he/she says that they are :confused: ...then changing heads is almost a moot point. :eek:

Cheers

Mike

[Hossman]

A drum shipped overseas in tune. That's bizarre!

The point about the heads is this.
The top heads on tenor drums resonate about half the time that the bottom heads spend resonating. Every time you play a stroke you stop the previous vibration mode of the top head but the bottoms just keep on moving.
So for sure changing out bottom heads frequently is the easiest means of maintaining consistent sound.

New player, old player or otherwise.

[txasbass]

just a little note to everyone.....dont listen to Hoss. he may be a great bass drummer but he has no clue what he is talking about. just kidding hoss. its your favorite texas bass drummer.

[Robbert van Gorp]

Originally posted by Hossman:
A drum shipped overseas in tune. That's bizarre!All Andantes are tuned in the factory, so it's actually ready to use! Maybe some small adjustments but that's it! Some people call it service.... ;-)

[J Hickey]

Hoss,

A couple of questions regarding tenor heads:

1. What heads are you currently recommending for “original” Hossbilts (circa 98)?
2. After reading your comments about the differences in vibration rates between the top and bottom heads, I’m curious to hear your thoughts re: using different heads on the top and bottom.

Mista Cole...I guess you could jump in here too.

Cheers,

Joe

[MatthewBradbury]

If you're in a huge pinch and need a quick/temporary dampener... try folding a bit of paper-towel into a 3x3 inch square and putting it on with tape... believe it or not, it works!!! Also if you can find "moongels" they do the trick too, they're blue and are the same material as the sticky hands you get in vending machines. Hope this helps

[Mike Cole]

Hey there Joe!
I still prefer Remo Emperor heads. They're double ply and the thickest that Remo makes for a 28" drum....plus they're easy for me to get. Aquarian and Evans make a great product as well. Hoss has a wealth of experience in working with just about every combination. As he mentioned earlier:
Thinner heads = more sustain Thicker Heads = less sustain An additional factor in choosing head weight is that a heavier/thicker ply drumhead will, in most cases, create more shell vibration...a good thing when you have a 'beauty' shell...eh. :D Since I have a 20" wide shell, I like to make certain I get the most from it. Most Hosbilts I've heard have less of a 'dead zone' around the competition circle for this very reason.

Tenor drums are a different animal. The bottom head is pointing toward the ground. In addition there is only one head that is being played (batter head). In most cases, I prefer a relatively thinner head on the bottom of the tenor drum to produce more volume from behind.

Cheers, pal!

[Mike Cole]

oops

[Hossman]

Joe,
There are no heads being made anywhere to the quality control level of Aquarian. PERIOD.
With original damping still in good shape on the Hosbilts.
Studio X Texture coated on tops and Classic Clears on bottoms.
We'll talk about shell tone and head tone another time.
Who'd a thunk it ten years ago!!!

I wonder who thinks I have a favourite Texan Bass Drummer??

Must be Brain...I mean Brian!

[Hossman]

Drums tuned in the factory???
Do they also include a certificate of compliance with that service, as to what frequency they are tuned at when they leave?
I don't get it?
At all.

[No, that's me over there...]

Moderator Ian has an excellent method of dampening. One that I'm sure is patent-pending, ultra-top-secret, so unless he tells you himself, I am not going to divulge it.

But it is elegant in its simplicity and versatility, and effective!

[Pete Walen]

I'd have to agree with Hoss on this one (drums leaving the factory tuned). Shipping drums with tensioned/tuned heads across the Atlantic in a cargo ship, aside from the potential of a LOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOONG transit time, or the crap shoot of air shipping them in a non-pressurized, non-heated cargo space, simply would seem, well, more risk than I'd want to introduce. Yes, I know the shells are special. I also know of no one else who does this (or claims to) for exactly those reasons.

Then, how do they know where I want MY drums tuned?

Assembled is one thing - fully tensioned and tuned is something else entirely.

[Pete Walen]

Thanks Stewart. I disagree with you about what you call luck...you find drums easy to tune due to your years of experience and expertise!

Praise from the praise-worthy?

If you are going for the best possible sound, it is necessary to change them on a regular basis. If you get any gas from the treasurer...ask if the pipers will be playing the same reeds from the previous season. If he/she says that they are :confused: ...then changing heads is almost a moot point.

Absolutely! I've played in bands where the budget was so tight that the band springing for a set of heads was absolutely out of the question. So, we'd buy our own.

The sound is everything, right? If you're using the same heads you did two or three years ago, it is entirely possible to get consistent sound. I'd suggest the surprise should be if it is consistently good. :eek:

[Tj Johnston]

Please excuse my ignorance here... but I am not visually grasping the concept of this marshmellow dampening on the lugs. Would someone by chance have a picture to illustrate this method?

For note: We are using cheese cloth from edge to edge across the center, on both sides of our bass drum. Having not tried other methods.. I can not give it great remarks. On our tenors we use foam around the inside edge, sticking about 1/4 inch above the rim, top and bottom. Again.. this is the only method we have used.

But, we are hoping to obtain new bass and tenors, more than likely the Premier 26x12 and #208, therefore I am researching new methods.

[Mr. Peanut]

Patent-pending and top secret?? Jeeze, when i played with Ian in Peel he never kept any secrets! Didn't know that the the foam and plastic ring was a secret?! :humm: cheers pal.

Mr. Peanut

[txasbass]

All i have to say is buy from hoss.
and yes hoss....it is brian.

[No, that's me over there...]

Mr. Peanut... I said that because the cheque hasn't cleared yet.

[Scott Niven]

I think the marshmallow idea is that there are little cylinders of foam attached to the rim so that the flat end is up against the skin, so that there isn't too much contact all round the skin, conpared to having a circle of foam all around.

[Monique Ros]

Originally posted by Zach K:
Monique,

Was that when Hoss was building them, or Premier? One of my current bands has both bass and tenors that are original Hossbilt. I'm not sure if they have those plugs because they have opaque white heads(Aquarian), so even if they did have a similar dampening, you wouldn't see it. Did they used to ship with clear heads? Zach, the bottom is transparant, but you can see the dampening touching the skin. Besides, I have taken the tenor apart to see what it looks like and to give it a clean after we had a performance in France. It was covered in confetti. And I think the best way to describe the dampening is more like fluffy marshmellows.

P.S. It is pre Premier.

Monique

[Jim Toomey]

We are very satisfied with the Remo ring dampeners for out tenors. Easy and consistent.

I have spent a TON of time farting around with the Hoss style dampening in two different bass drums. I like the concept of it, but I live where it's hot. REAL hot. So the adhesive doesn't hold up real well, and the little "tombstones" keep falling off the shell and bounce around in the drum.

Even though I like the Hoss method, I am about ready to go with some kind of "ring on the head" method just for convenience.

[Drums4now]

Originally posted by Tj Johnston:


For note: We are using cheese cloth from edge to edge across the center, on both sides of our bass drum. Having not tried other methods.. I can not give it great remarks. Tj, I think you're being kind. I discovered my 26x12 was damped that way with no less than three felt strips per head trapped tangentially across the rims. I couldn't get diddly out of the drum using fluffy mallets until I yanked it all out and with Mike's guidance replaced the damping with a faux Hoss procedure (glued weather strip pieces). The band is giving me rave reviews now instead of sending me back to the equipment room (like, we really have one :wink: )for my golf ball mallets, so they can hear me at all.

I highly recommend that any drummer taking on handed down gear, take down their drum, see what's been done to it and consider what can be done better to tune it up. :p

[neilly]

I found a wee pillow inside mine in December.

[Hossman]

Dear hot weather drummers.
Scratch off any finish on the reinforcing hoop inside the drum.
Adhesives bond better with dull surfaces.
Glue the dampers in with construction panel adhesive instead of hot glue.
Presto, a perfectly damped shell, consistently damped every time you change out your heads.
Later, HOSS

[Drums4now]

Ditto that. A few of my damper blocks have failed (viewed through the vent hole), so I will be going back to do it right, i.e., roughing the surface to get a better bond. Meanwhile, I'm getting some data on what each block is worth...about 0.25 seconds of reverb per, so it seems.

Do you recommend cutting the blocks with a lip so that they are trapped by the head as well, or will that unecessarily mess up the load bearing surface? :)

Cheers, Kent

[Hossman]

No lip kent.
The bearing edge should be free and clear.
The dampers are available pre-cut.
Send me an e-mail.
Cheers, HOSS

[J Hickey]

I've been a fan of Hoss's system for years and have used it sucessfully to set up a number of non-Hosbilt bass and tenors. And, of course, on a Hosbilt drum you wouldn't want to go any other way.

But for sake of discussion, I'd like to bring up another "low-stress" alternative for Premiers, Pearls, etc...Aquarian SuperKick heads, which are "self-dampening". There's no need for foam or any other material on the shell or heads.

Steve Foley (LA Scots) used to use them on a Pearl bass (Andrew, does he still?). I got to hear the drum "up close and personal", and actually got to try it out, at Pleasanton a couple of years ago and thought it had a great sound. At Macalester College, we've been experimenting with them on a Premier bass and Mojo tenors (made by Steve Biggs) and have liked the sound.

Any opinions?

Cheers,

Joe

[Andrew H]

Yes Tasty, we absolutely still use the SuperKick heads on the LA Scots bass (now a 16x28 Premier).

Bands that I'm teaching and/or have taught are also having great success with them throughout the west coast. At a student band last night, we just mounted a set of SuperKicks to a drum (a custom Andante that's had it's old plastic shell replaced with NA maple) and by the end of the night it was already outputting buttery goodness set exactly at "G-476" on the meter.

In the LA Scots we also use the SuperKicks on our tenors in 16" and 18". I'm going to be toying with an customized alternative from Aquarian in the next few weeks too, and if it turns out I'll be sure to let you all know about it.

The nice part about Aquarian - other than the fact that they already make exquisite heads - is that they're willing to experiment and they're located right here in Anaheim just a few miles away from my place!! :)

[J Hickey]

Thanks Andrew!

Do you know if they can do custom sizes? To the best of my knowledge, they don't do a 14" SuperKick as "stock".

Thanks!

Joe

[Andrew H]

No, they don't do a 14" SK as standard. In fact, it has only been the past year or so that they've had the sizes down to 16" and 18". The 28" bass heads were at-first a custom job for Steve Foley... obviously they're now making them more routinely but only when a set are ordered. I bet an email to them from their website (the way I made first contact) would be effective in asking for the custom size down to 14". I need to do the same to get a 15" for some a Pearl "retro" tenor one of my students is playing, too.

FWIW - I use SK's on top and bottom of my tenors right now but on a drum as small as 14", I'm not sure a dampened bottom head is a wise idea... maybe just a Studio-X on the bottom because it has the tone ring but not the felt... just a thought for ya.

Cheers!