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View Full Version : Hair, and other pressing issues


piobgurl
11-14-2004, 10:50 PM
Take a look at the list of thread subjects in the Ladies Room. Is it any wonder some people don't take us seriously in piping? Does the ladies room have to be about all the stereotypical crap: hair, makeup, uniforms, and now bladder issues?

How about discussions about the female approach to learning tunes and teaching; the great female players; women in bands; history of women pipers [see the excellent article in Piper and Drummer Magazine on Edith MacPherson?]

How about some PIPING content?

annefrommass
11-14-2004, 11:06 PM
I was wondering when someone was going to say something about that, but these are the things women talk about.
And just to clarify, we HAVE been discussing other things... but we have also been giving each other advice about how to deal with womens issues in a largely male dominated hobby.
If you want new topics, start one!

RosieJ
11-15-2004, 06:29 AM
If you look at some previous discussions, Piobgurl, this forum was started, among other reasons, so that women would have a place where, if they wanted to talk about things that they felt were too personal for the Beer Tent, they could do so. The Beer Tent was kinda like sitting around a giant table that was 90% male and saying, hey, whaddya all do about.....? I'd guess you're still a 'young thing' though, so you don't have any of these problems....yet! If ya don't like the thread subject, don't read it! :D

And please DO start others on topics that you are interested in! I guess some of us are just happy to FINALLY be able to talk about stuff that has been weighing on our minds for quite awhile. :idea: So we're getting it all out in the open! :banana: :banana:

piobgurl
11-15-2004, 08:48 AM
I don't get how this is any less public, or more "private" than the beer tent. And I don't understand the need to share personal medical history with 5000+ members of an online group.


But hey, if that's what you like to talk about...

Love2Drum
11-15-2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by piobgurl:
I don't get how this is any less public, or more "private" than the beer tent. And I don't understand the need to share personal medical history with 5000+ members of an online group.


But hey, if that's what you like to talk about... If you don't like it, you're always free to leave and go somewhere else, like the Beer Tent.

Perhaps if you read the posts about the starting up of this thread, it would make more sense to you. http://www.bobdunsire.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=38;t=000001

Calypso
11-15-2004, 10:28 AM
Originally posted by piobgurl:
I don't get how this is any less public, or more "private" than the beer tent. And I don't understand the need to share personal medical history with 5000+ members of an online group.


But hey, if that's what you like to talk about... I'm pretty sure you were around when the issue of the Ladies Room "privacy" was being discussed and debated. This is as private as it's gonna get in here! Everyone knows this forum was created to give women pipers/drummers/dancers a place to discuss women's issues. I really don't see why stress incontinence should be any less important to pipers than having tendonitis, arthritis, pneumonia, etc. So, if you don't want to read about stress incontinence then don't click on the thread!

And if you are thinking this is the only place where "personal medical history" is being discussed, you should do a forum search using the word vasectomy!! Hmmm...strange that no one commented on the appropriateness of that thread!

And hey...thank you so much, Piobgurl, for giving us all your approval to talk about anything we like. :rolleyes:

piobgurl
11-15-2004, 12:00 PM
>And hey...thank you so much, Piobgurl, for giving us all your approval to talk about anything we like. <

y'er welcome!


>I really don't see why stress incontinence should be any less important to pipers than having tendonitis, arthritis, pneumonia, etc. So, if you don't want to read about stress incontinence then don't click on the thread!

And if you are thinking this is the only place where "personal medical history" is being discussed, you should do a forum search using the word vasectomy!! Hmmm...strange that no one commented on the appropriateness of that thread!<

I find all of this a mind-numbing waste of time. So, I won't go on.

Tommy P.
11-15-2004, 12:05 PM
Oh, I bet you do...... :D

Macswegan
11-15-2004, 12:55 PM
Piobgurl,

Without jumping down your throat (or only HALFWAY down), I've got a number of contradictory thoughts on this:

1. I, too, wonder if the "Ladies Room" is always going to be about clothes and hair.

2. But I also think that if people on these forums want to discuss these issues, they have every right to. If you don't care, don't read.

3. Part of the reason why the Ladies' Room covers such "stereotypical" fare is because people post non-stereotypical fare elsewhere. Beginning ladies post beginner questions in "Beginners and Intermediate." Women who have silly jokes to tell are more likely to post them in the beer tent than here . . . unless the silly joke is about female pipers.

4. I'm also a bit taken aback by one of the questions you asked: "How about discussions about the female approach to learning tunes and teaching?" Is there a "female approach" to these things? I've taken lessons and taught for years, and I've known women who practiced and women who didn't; women who were shy and retiring and women who were highly competitive; women who could learn a tune in an hour and women who couldn't learn one in six months. Likewise, I've never had a female instructor, but I see no reason to assume that they all have similar teaching styles.

5. As to some of the specific questions you mentioned: great female pipers and the history of women pipers. Sure, I'd like to hear more about these things . . . but is there a historian in the house who can fill us in? It's a great question to post, but I suspect the threads would be short. If you happen to be a historian of women's playing (or know anyone who is), I'd love to hear about the history of women players. But (due to my own ignorance) I wouldn't have much to contribute, and I doubt that many other people who read here would either.

6. Last (and least): you say that given the topics in the Ladies' Room, "Is it any wonder some people don't take us seriously in piping?" I don't give a damn what "some people" say about female pipers. If some people have a problem with female pipers, too bad. I personally don't care about hair and kilts either, but the women in the piping world have every right to talk about them to their heart's content.

Moon Mouse
11-15-2004, 01:36 PM
Originally posted by piobgurl:
I find all of this a mind-numbing waste of time. So, I won't go on. Don't let the door hit you in the rump on the way out. :wave:

Love2Drum
11-15-2004, 01:43 PM
Originally posted by Moon Mouse:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body">Originally posted by piobgurl:
<span style="font-weight: bold">I find all of this a mind-numbing waste of time. So, I won't go on. Don't let the door hit you in the rump on the way out. :wave: </span></div></div>Hehe, my thoughts exactly.

We've got enough negativity to deal with, we don't need anymore from you, piobgurl.

Calypso
11-15-2004, 02:04 PM
&gt;And hey...thank you so much, Piobgurl, for giving us all your approval to talk about anything we like :rolleyes: . &lt;

y'er welcome! Translation: :rolleyes: means "like we give a rip whether you approve or not".

Oh, I bet you do...... I agree with Rat Bast**d on that one! Not only will she (?) "go on", it will go on and on and on, until Piobgurl is satisfied with her(?)attempt to start a beer tent brawl in the ladies room. :idea: Why not save the moderators the trouble of closing the thread by making this the last post?

piobgurl
11-15-2004, 04:10 PM
Since when is expressing a contrary opinion the same as starting a brawl? I think there are some pretty fragile souls here.

Interesting how it's a place of free discussion UNTIL someone asks, "What the hell are we discussing this for?" Then all of a sudden its "out you go," and "oooh, you're negative"...etc.

Close the thread, no problem...apparently only people who think like you are welcome.

Abdpiper
11-15-2004, 04:20 PM
Originally posted by piobgurl:
Since when is expressing a contrary opinion the same as starting a brawl? I think there are some pretty fragile souls here.

Interesting how it's a place of free discussion UNTIL someone asks, "What the hell are we discussing this for?" Then all of a sudden its "out you go," and "oooh, you're negative"...etc.

Close the thread, no problem...apparently only people who think like you are welcome. If you feel this strongly about the whole thing and don't want this to end up as a b1tching session (couldn't think of another word for it;-)), then why do you keep coming back and replying? Not slagging you off -- just wondering.

AllisonB aka Sweet Reed
11-15-2004, 04:59 PM
Interesting how it's a place of free discussion UNTIL someone asks, "What the hell are we discussing this for?" Ummm... WE (as in, everyone but you) were discussing things. You were insulting the intelligence of everyone who chose to take part in the discussion as well as (I believe) breaking a forum rule by questioning the validity of someone else's posts.

Then all of a sudden its "out you go," and "oooh, you're negative"...etc. I remember reading in another thread in the Ladies Room that you were offering to leave... :shrug:


Since when is expressing a contrary opinion the same as starting a brawl? Perhaps you should take a look at all the responses to your posts and ask yourself if you are truly expressing "a contrary opinion" or just being contrary and telling everyone that their topics of interest are "stereotypical crap" and not as worthy as yours? If you are going to make confrontational posts, expect to be confronted!

ChickaDee
11-15-2004, 05:02 PM
Originally posted by Piobgurl:

Interesting how it's a place of free discussion UNTIL someone asks, "What the hell are we discussing this for?" Then all of a sudden its "out you go," and "oooh, you're negative"...etc.

Close the thread, no problem...apparently only people who think like you are welcome. Everyone is welcome provided they "post in a courteous and polite manner".

I do not want to close this thread. Discussion is good. Opposing views CAN be good....sometimes we learn something!! However, play nice please. Piobgurl, if you have a positive topic of discussion relating to female pipers/female drummers/female dancers take Anne's advice and post it. No one is stopping you.

Dee

Macswegan
11-15-2004, 06:45 PM
The original poster probably could have found a better term to use than "stereotypical crap" to characterize the threads on this board.

That said, some of the replies (at least three of which say very little beyond "get lost") -- hardly qualify as "courteous and polite" either.

nessiesmom
11-15-2004, 07:06 PM
I'm new to the forums, but I always check out the Ladies Room. It's interesting to me to find out how other bands handle matters such as hair and kilts. It's part of the overall impression that the band has on the public, and it matters. I live in a fairly rural area (southwest Colorado) and our band is small, so the information in the forum is valuable to me. I also have noted that men pipers may have 'bladder' issues.

I think the most reasonable thing to do if you object to the topic of a thread, is to not read it. Or maybe that's too simple.

Nessie's Mom

(Nessie is my bagpipe)

piobgurl
11-15-2004, 08:55 PM
Well, I keep "wasting my time" here because I feel strongly about this point.

My original message did not question the validity of anyone's post. It questioned the validity of these topics. That is not an insult to anyone's intelligence. It's a larger question about perceptions, and about the reality of not being taken seriously as a female performer.

If you all feel that these are subjects worth chatting about, OK, but I don't. That's my point. (still leaving..haha)

There have been some interesting points, too. Macswegan (look way up in the thread) asks about male/female learning styles. Well, countless studies have shown that there are differences, and at one point there were some major adjustments made in schools to allow female students to learn as well as males. Now that the balance has shifted, news reports from the educational field talk about the fact that many schools may be biased against male learning, and there are examples of school segregating males to adjust teaching/learning so that they can achieve as well as females.

So, yes, there are bigger issues out there. I'm not saying it's all got to be serious and educational, but I think my sense of where the balance should be is somewhat different than others.

OK, now I'll go. Maybe. Right away....honest...this time....

Randy J. Homer
11-15-2004, 10:48 PM
As an interesting side note - there was a recent civil suit filed by a former Marine sergeant who believed that he had been passed over for promotions at his place of employment. He claimed gender bias at the phone sex business where he worked taking calls. Seems he adopted a female name, disguised his voice and fit right in.

Funny how no one recognized his style.

Tommy P.
11-15-2004, 11:45 PM
I called it!
:lol:

AllisonB aka Sweet Reed
11-16-2004, 12:04 AM
Funny how no one recognized his style Funny you should say that Randy! :D Ever since I started reading Piobgurl's posts a while back, I've been telling ChickaDee "I swear that 'gurl' is a man!" Come on Piobgurl...fess up!! I know it...several other people know it...may as well accept the fact that you can't "pass" as female on here! :p

That said, some of the replies (at least three of which say very little beyond "get lost") -- hardly qualify as "courteous and polite" either. The older I get, the less time I feel I have to spend being nice to people who aren't very nice to others. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels that way? :shrug:

Tommy P.
11-16-2004, 12:48 AM
Originally posted by AllisonB aka Sweet Reed:
The older I get, the less time I feel I have to spend being nice to people who aren't very nice to others. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels that way? :shrug:

No ma'am,....now you know where I got this nick-name! :wink:

Love2Drum
11-16-2004, 09:09 AM
quote:
--------------------------------------------------
That said, some of the replies (at least three of which say very little beyond "get lost") -- hardly qualify as "courteous and polite" either.
--------------------------------------------------
When one is directly attacked, one tends not to respond kindly. Instead of making her first post imply we weren't talking about anything of value, she should have found a better way to ask why we were focusing on it.

Moon Mouse
11-16-2004, 09:42 AM
Originally posted by piobgurl:
My original message did not question the validity of anyone's post. It questioned the validity of these topics. Topics are made up of posts. Same thing.

That is not an insult to anyone's intelligence. It's a larger question about perceptions, and about the reality of not being taken seriously as a female performer.As has been pointed out before, there have been threads about male related physical concerns. Many men that might not be squeemish about their own physical concerns get queezy about women's physical issues, so perhaps the women posting here are just trying to be polite.

If you all feel that these are subjects worth chatting about, OK, but I don't. That's my point. (still leaving..haha)I don't recall anyone asking for your commentary on their discussions with one another. Generally, courteous people don't just butt in on conversations in which they have no interest, just to say how silly they think those conversations are. But, hey, that's just how my momma raised me.

There have been some interesting points, too. Macswegan (look way up in the thread) asks about male/female learning styles. Sounds like an interesting topic, if someone wanted to start that.

So, yes, there are bigger issues out there. I'm not saying it's all got to be serious and educational, but I think my sense of where the balance should be is somewhat different than others.So start those topics, and bypass the ones not to your interest. I don't think anyone is going to pine away to nothingness over your not participating in every thread.

barefootpiper
11-16-2004, 10:04 AM
Originally posted by AllisonB aka Sweet Reed:
[/QB]The older I get, the less time I feel I have to spend being nice to people who aren't very nice to others. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels that way? :shrug: [/QB]I agree!! And I'm only 17 so it seems like I'm gonna get a good bit less patient . . . :rolleyes: :D
Piobgurl: If all of life was serious and had to have a point it wouldn't be much fun, would it!?!
Grace &lt;+&gt;&lt;

Calypso
11-17-2004, 09:00 AM
Originally posted by AllisonB aka Sweet Reed:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> Funny how no one recognized his style Funny you should say that Randy! :D Ever since I started reading Piobgurl's posts a while back, I've been telling ChickaDee "I swear that 'gurl' is a man!" Come on Piobgurl...fess up!! I know it...several other people know it...may as well accept the fact that you can't "pass" as female on here! :p

That said, some of the replies (at least three of which say very little beyond "get lost") -- hardly qualify as "courteous and polite" either. The older I get, the less time I feel I have to spend being nice to people who aren't very nice to others. Maybe I'm not the only one who feels that way? :shrug: </div></div>Last month, I also questioned Piobgurl's obvious gender crisis in another thread here (http://www.bobdunsire.com/cgi-bin/ubb/ultimatebb.php?ubb=get_topic;f=38;t=000008;p=1#000 016) and nary a peep was heard from Piobgurl afterwards. Now Piobgurl is claiming to be one of "us" (i.e. us poor, pitiful, not to be taken seriously, female pipers) but once the gender issue is raised again he disappears! Coincidence? I don't think so! :wink:

It sure is a lot easier to launch an attack on the ladies room topics when disguised as one of "us" than to do it as a man. And I mean that in more ways than one! :p

Come out, come out, wherever you are Piob gurl :lol:

Macswegan
11-17-2004, 09:47 AM
Let me see if I have this straight:

1. Piobgurl has said things that several women regard as rude.
2. Piobgurl evidently disagrees with some women about the importance of certain topics.

Therefore, Piobgurl is really a man.

I don't know if Piobgurl is a man or a woman, and I don't really care. But the apparent implication that women are never rude is new to me, and the idea that those who disagree with women can't possibly be female themselves is equally strange.

Calypso
11-17-2004, 10:20 AM
It has nothing to do with rudeness, agreeing or disagreeing. To use Randy J. Homer's term, it has more to do with "style".

FD Piper
11-17-2004, 12:20 PM
The neighbor kid who just sat back and watched everything that transpired in the movie "The Burbs" said -

"God, I love this neighborhood!"

I could not agree more!

ChickaDee
11-17-2004, 02:56 PM
Originally posted by Macswegan:

I don't know if Piobgurl is a man or a woman, and I don't really care. I agree. Furthermore, it really doesn't matter what Piobgurl's gender is. The content of a person's post is what should matter. If the content adds to the discussion, whether by agreeing, offering opposing ideas/views, sharing ideas, or offering advice, GENDER shouldn't be an issue. The same thing applies to contentious material or someone "trolling".....at that point, I couldn't care less if it is a man or woman.

I think the bigger issue should be this:

Originally posted by Piobgurl:

How about discussions about the female approach to learning tunes and teaching; the great female players; women in bands; history of women pipers

Well, I keep "wasting my time" here because I feel strongly about this point.

There are bigger issues out there. I'm not saying it's all got to be serious and educational, but I think my sense of where the balance should be is somewhat different than others. More importantly to me than this person's gender is I wonder WHY someone "who feels so strongly about something" wouldn't take the opportunity to start a topic of discussion about it. Make a difference! If something doesn't interest you, don't follow that particular thread. START one of your own that interests you.....just be sure to start it in the appropriate forum, play nice, don't use all CAPS in subject/msg, (insert all the other forum rules here :wink: ) etc. etc........

One last thought on this topic. Please remember that anyone who wishes to participate in this forum is welcome to do so. Someone's gender should not be the main focus. When the idea of a female forum was presented, the majority (women included!) seemed to be okay with the idea BUT did not wish for it to be a closed forum. It is important we not forget that! This IS an open forum because that is what most of us wanted (with the option of moderators in this forum posting for those who wish to remain anonymous). IMHO, this forum works well. The men that have chosen to participate here have contributed in a positive way, same as the women. I guess my point is.....rude or contentious material is rude and contentious regardless of gender. Such material will get equal treatment. :smokin:

Dee

Randy J. Homer
11-17-2004, 03:23 PM
After several Private Messages back and forth, I've been brought to agree that my earlier posted suspicions were both premature and irrelevant. I withdraw my insinuation with appropriate apologies.

EquusRacer
11-18-2004, 09:05 AM
Hey, Randy. From one "bad boy" (hey, I'm sure it's undeserved :wink: , but I get called that) to another: No Worries. :hatoff: