Teaching Marching and Playing

[Sussex Pipes]

What are the experiences of teaching a student to march and play? One of the kids I've taught can play 3 or 4 simple tunes on the practice chanter, but I noticed he doesn't tap his foot while playing. I asked him to play the tune while "marching", but it seems the brain can only cope with one complexity at a time. Or is there a more fundamental problem with understanding rhythm and beat?
Peter.

[Macswegan]

I've found it helps to practice the skills separately -- I've asked students to sing the tune and march, or (if that's too difficult) to follow me as I sing the tune and march.

I've also had them march around to recorded pipe music, just to help get the idea of marching to the beat. It usually takes some time to get the concept.

[Neilkiwi]

Interesting and well timed topic. Two of our learners are making the transition to the band at the moment. Both have discovered that playing standing still and while marching seem to bear no relationship to each other, and, even worse, the concept of two three paced rolls and starting drones and chanter at the correct point is just impossible.!!

I started them on the pipes, playing and marching the tune they felt most comfortable with.

This established how far they needed to improve.

We then marched up and down together playing the same tune on practice chanters. After a number of times through a large improvement.

Left them to march up and down at home with the pc.

Next week at band practice tried marching to the pc and then (because of the improvement each of them had made) got the pipes out again. Marking time blew pipes up and began marching. Each week we march with PCs to each tune and then again on the pipes. For the first two weeks they homework was to concentrate on marching with PC and now they are to concentrate on marching with THE instrument.

Now that they have the ability to march (to some of their tunes) we are working on the mechanics of two three pace rolls and what to do when. As yet we haven't introduced a drummer to the process yet but probably next week we will coerce the D/S into playing rolls for them to practice to.

I tried to break the process down to small stages so that they could feel/see progress as quickly as possible. (They were both devastated to find that it was apparently so difficult!)

In three weeks they have moved from moving feet destroying the link between brain and fingers to being close to being ready to be passed to the Drum Major for instruction in how to march (marking time, wheels etc)

Their marching is by no means good BUT they are getting the correct foot on the ground at the correct time more and more often and can play the tune as well.

As an aside, because they have progressed relatively quickly with this problem they are starting to have confidence that they can do this and their overall learning seems to have accelerated. Very useful for me as a reminder that learners confidence is often fragile and that this can really impede their progress.

[Sussex Pipes]

Thanks Guys for the helpful comments. I will try some of the suggestions on Saturday.
Cheers.

[Randy McIntosh]

Originally posted by Sussex Pipes:
One of the kids I've taught can play 3 or 4 simple tunes on the practice chanter... SNIP....I asked him to play the tune while "marching", but it seems the brain can only cope with one complexity at a time. I for one, have to have the PC resting on my leg or the table top. I can not walk and play the PC at same time, I even have a problem trying to play the PC while just standing there not resting it.

[Christoph Kresse]

Originally posted by Sussex Pipes:
What are the experiences of teaching a student to march and play? One of the kids I've taught can play 3 or 4 simple tunes on the practice chanter, but I noticed he doesn't tap his foot while playing. I asked him to play the tune while "marching", but it seems the brain can only cope with one complexity at a time. Or is there a more fundamental problem with understanding rhythm and beat?
Peter. Hi there peter,
what usually helps with my piping students is that I teach them easy rhtyhm excercises as soon as they play on the prcatice chanter. I let them clap rhythym pattern and even have them write them out on staff paper. By the time we tackle tunes they should have a basic understanding of how rhythm structures work. They will not be experts but will know who to handle it. Before I actually let them march a tune, I will have them stand up and either let them tap their foot (left and right) or let them march on the spot. As soon as they can do that without any problems I have them march around with their tune. There still can be issues because every student is different but for the bigger part I have been successfull with that method. An early undersatnding is the key here.
To teach a whole group of pipers marching in a pipe band setting is a whole different story
CK

[Lauren Jaworski]

I found it helpful to first have the student sing the tune and march to it, just to get the general rhythm. Like everyone else says, marching with the practice chanter is the next step. Sometimes it can be helpful for the teacher to sing along and enounciate parts of the tune as he plays it (accent on the left foot or whatnot). Smacking something that makes noise (desk, wall, etc) might help him find the beat at first also.

[Roger Huth]

Practise bring their feet down on the beat notes first.
Only play the beat notes as the foot touches the ground.
Then practise a steady rhythm doing the above.

Cheers

[Funkee Munkee]

Like a well-timed Dilbert cartoon, this situation also hits home.

I have a student who is having trouble marching and playing. He has even gone so far as to rewrite a 3/4 into a 4/4 because he states he can march to a 4/4.
I marched it out for him...slamming my left foot down.
He went on to explain to me that the 3/4 we are working must be wrong and I must be marching incorrectly. :shrug: :mad:
I went through a lot to re-explain note timing and time signatures. I told him to take his 4/4 and mark "L" and "R" to correspond to the proper foot placement during the tune...I'm doing the same with the 3/4.
I also told him that I want to see his perfect marching and perfect playing at next practice.
Crazy...just crazy.
This is the same guy that played a funeral when I expressed to him that he wasn't really ready.
The sands in his hourglass have about run out. :rolleyes:

[EquusRacer]

Hi, Peter: There are good suggestions above, so I'll not be redundant.

However, you did put your finger on a couple points. First, I do believe that we're dealing with an instrument of increasing distraction; and to that end, the brain does seem to get overloaded. But with most, that's temporary.

Others, however, may have a fundamental problem with rhythm, in which case you'll have a different set of issues with which to deal. Fortunately, those are less frequent, and it's usually just getting things set in order and with confidence...utilizing many of the tools others have mentioned.

However, I've had young students who concerned me initially because they weren't tapping their feet (which to me is virtually automatic). But I soon realized in many of those cases that what they chose to do (or not do) was not an indication of what they could do (or not do).

My prize student initially never tapped her feet until I asked her to. Then, once she was on pipes, I asked her if she could march. She didn't want to until I insisted. And when she did, she was spot on. Now when she competes, she marches back and forth with such grace and confidence it sets her apart from many in her contest. Go figure!

[David]

The players in my band are also going through the transition to marching now. Seems natural to some, and to a few it is genuinely complicated. Most do seem to get it with practice. The trick is not to let tone and fingering go you-know-where in a handbasket. In private lessons I like to have students march while playing early on, repeating a given tune 5 or 6 times on the hoof. My lessons always include more time on the pipes than the practice chanter once a student is on the pipes. So in the end, piping student and tutor spend a lot of time together working on pipes from the moment the student is ready to mount-up. Only a very few ever have persistent problems.

3/4s as often printed may present a problem to new marchers, as has been noted many times and in many places. Start-notes are often placed--and played--inside the first bar, and this can make the left foot feel friendless and out of sorts, especially if you are the only one in a group who doesn't like the off-beat cum down-beat. I mention the problem with this time signature as many basic tunes, often ones that a new marcher will use, are in 3/4, and the down-beats are sometimes played improperly by whole bands.

Do any of you old timers out there still like to march the square in your own practice? Such a mystery to the uninitiated when one turns and then steps-off on down-beat of a part. I believe that with a large, physically demanding instrument such as the pipes that marching eventually improves overall performance, especially tone and timing. At least for strict-tempo tunes.

[John MacDonald]

I teach ALL of my students to play and march from the very outset, including the basic scale. The whole process may be laboured but my experiences have shown that if you teach in this way and IN PARTICULAR break the REEL rythm down it will pay dividends in the long run

[David]

I think you're right, John, as teaching piping and marching later on usually involves a temporary down-turn in fingering technique and expression. And while it is possible to inadvertantly increase marching tempo, on the average tempo is much steadier than when playing without marching.

[John MacDonald]

looks like were on the same wavelength

[piob player]

I teach my students to march to G gracenotes on low A. They get used to nailing the beat and everything else just builds on that.

[John MacDonald]

very much the same principal

[Big Dog]

As a drummer, I do have a good sense of rhythm of course, and marching and playing just comes naturally to me so I find it hard to relate to the folks that struggle with it. But I do see it happening with other people in our band. And what our P/M does very often is to direct everyone to mark time while we're playing during practices.

But he tells them not only to mark time (march in place), but also to kind of rock or swing (sway?)from side to side as they do it. So it's not just the feet -- they're getting their whole body in synch with the beat and the rhythm of the tune. It seems to be an effective technique, and at the same time I think it helps the people put a little more expression and feeling into the music -- a nice little side benefit!