1st Lesson

[Roger Huth]

What is the very first thing that you would show a new student at the start of a first lesson?

(I was asked this the other day by a Corporal in the Rifles and am curious as to other answers and how they might compare to what I replied. Thanks)

[Funkee Munkee]

Respect!
I would sit down with the student and go over their goals.

Then I'd let that student know how I am going to help with that goal.
I would also explain the effort required (relative to their goals) and that I will be with them on this journey as long as they are holding to their end.

Originally posted by Roger Huth:
What is the very first thing that you would show a new student at the start of a first lesson?

[TwitchyFingers]

How to hold the chanter correctly. Straight fingers, no death grip then right on to Hellbound Train(just kidding).

[Robbie.Crow]

is this just for pipers or can drummers join :lol: ?

We normaly start by showing them how to hold the sticks properly... and then straight onto mummy daddys, Tripalets, paradiddles for the first lesson

[Morlowgee]

Jim McGillivray's, Rythmic Fingerwork :thumb:

[MacDhughaill]

At this point, we talk about the commitment it takes to learn that bagpipes and how valuable my time is.

[Sussex Pipes]

Give him/her a sample of what the Great Highland Bagpipe is capable of, and if you've got 10 fingers its possible to achieve it! Enthusiasm!

[ScotDrumr]

I'd go along the lines of ABC_Piper. Does the student have any type of musical background, can they read music? Have they done any piping or wind instrument before? Why are they interested in this instrument (is it their choice or the parents)? Does anyone else in their family pipe? (could be a help or a hindrance).

Ron

[Gord™ ©1980]

Originally posted by Morlowgee:
Jim McGillivray's, Rythmic Fingerwork :thumb: What good would that be if a student can't read music? hold a chanter properly? or even know what the scale is?

[Morlowgee]

that is the particular book I use to start students out with.

[Gord™ ©1980]

Chris -

I think they are resonable questions. I'm just curious why and how one would go about using such a tool to teach BEGINNERS?

I seem to recall it being stated somewhere in the preface of Rythmic Fingerwork that it shouldn't be used as a "beginner" tool.

:hatoff:
Cheers,
Gord

[Michael New]

I don't think Gord's post was unreasonable at all, and I think you may have taken offense where none was intended. The preface to Rhythmic Fingerwork specifically says that it is not for use by beginners. It adds that there are tools that can be used by a beginner in concert with their instructor - but I agree that it would not be an appropriate choice for a first lesson.

How to hold the chanter and play the basic scale is more than enough information for any piper's first lesson. As the student becomes proficient in blowing, playing the scale, and can recognize the notes on the staff, there are certainly exercises in Rhyhmic Fingerwork that can be used to enforce lessons in technique. That said, I think another tutor (I use the COP Green Book)is required.

Michael

[moderator team]

OK,

I hope offense was not intended...

I would like further dialog in this thread either

to address Roger's original question.... perhaps with some philosophy of approach...

or exposition of how Rhythmic Fingerwork is integrated in the approach to the beginner... leaving out any response to feeling "attacked".

with respect...

Richard, a moderator

[Roger Huth]

Hi
Thanks for everyone's input here.
It is the very first thing though.
What is the very first thing that you would show/ask of the Student.

"Right. Let's start then. First of all can I just ask you to........."

[Michael New]

"Pay up. :wink:

Now let's have a look at your chanter (I want to make sure it's at least playable, and that it's fitted with an appropriate and reasonably musical reed). I want to show you how to correctly hold the practice chanter, as hand position is very important to proper fingering technique."

After that, we'd start with the scale, both on the chanter and in notation.

In my view, Rhythmic Fingerwork exercises could be started as soon as simple G, D, and E gracenotes are learned, and may be continued as a means of drilling proper execution for all the various fingerings.

Regards,

Michael

[Richard Mao]

OK, now I'll jump in.

I personally check to see that the practice chanter I'm probably selling to the student works...

First thing I show is how to open the practice chanter and then close it... without breaking the reed. And I have the student do it several times on her/his chanter.

I then show how I open MY chanter... blow out condensation out of chanter top, back blow the reed, strip moisture off, and blow out moisture from the low end of the practice chanter and reassemble (I then have the student duplicate, and repeat for reinforcement).

I then show the student what strength to blow the practice chanter by having the student blow ever so softly into the top of the chanter... (no fingers on the holes)... then gradually increasing pressure so that he/she hears the squawk, then she/he hears the first pure tone... then ever increasing pressure (listening for increase in pitch) until the chanter reed closes... I then suggest a calibration.... Zero for no sound, 2 for the first squawk, 4 for the first pure tone, 10 for the shut down... Then I drill the student to blow at a level 5 pressure.... and be able to hit it consistently.

Now while the student is blowing, I show on my chanter.... and the student duplicates... finger positions on the holes/chanter (NOT note positions) .... hi A no fingers, hi G, thumb on, F, the pinch, E the double pinch..., D the triple pinch.

Then I draw a straight line of dots with a marks-a-lot on the student's low hand fingers.... corresponding to where I want the student to place his/her fingers to close low hand notes..

Then I have the student blow D and successively place D (to achieve C), C (to achieve B), B (to achieve low A), and low A fingers down...to achieve ultimately low G.... I have the student blow... and demonstrate from top hand notes downward.... to give the student POSITIVE reinforcement... that her/his fingers are going in the right place...

(I feel this positive sound reinforcement method and giving the student enough repetition to reliably place fingers is an advantageous preliminary groundwork to the COP approach of starting with the low G (page 18).... because a student inevitably only partially covers some hole.... doesn't know what's going on and gets frustrated. If a student attempts a note and misses it... e.g. due to incomplete coverage of a higher note hole.... I have the student rapidly reposition his/her fingers from high hand down while blowing and reinforcing by sound the finger positioning).

and obviously I think there are several steps to go through with a student properly PRIOR to naming the fingers and notes (Lesson 1, page 14)... which IS what I do.... AFTER the student can reliably achieve a low G (I've made a cut and paste single sheet summary chart of the chanter holes, notes on the staff and the note names...using the illustrations on pages 18 through 24).

====

I explain the role of the COP Tutor in my teaching curriculum to the student as follows. I am not in the business of reading the book to the student. I am in the business of covering the same material as the book. The actual book should be used by the student as an alternate instructor talking to the student... so that if he/she doesn't understand MY presentation... there will be an alternate explanation that might help.... e.g. while the student is trying to puzzle out a problem at home.

====

Page 13 does cover dismantling the chanter... but I defer most of the rest (pages 9-13) and cover it on the fly... integrating the information later on in my progression.

fwiw...


Humor is a wonderful way to prevent a hardening of your attitudes.

Richard Mao, The Peking Piper ( richardmao@rocketmail.com )

[TwitchyFingers]

Then I have the student blow D and successively place D (to achieve C), C (to achieve B), B (to achieve low A), and low A fingers down...to achieve ultimately low G.... I have the student blow... and demonstrate from top hand notes downward.... to give the student POSITIVE reinforcement... that her/his fingers are going in the right place...
I do this with students as well. Another good reason for starting on D is that new students may not have quite gotten the knack of blowing pressure(but I do like the way you do the pressure explination). Working down from D has less chance of getting the squawk and click starting on low A/G might.

[E.M.P.]

In theory, I think the best way to start out is with an introduction to Scottish and Irish music, though most students probably wouldn't be patient enough for that. Before the student even touched a practice chanter or pair of drum sticks, or even looked at a page of music, he/she would have to demonstrate (by singing/lilting) the difference between 1) time signatures, 2) major and minor melodies, 3) marches, dance music, songs/airs, and piobaireachd. Ear training from the beginning.

The youngest kids in the S.F.U. organization start off with an Intro to Scottish music class.

Ed

[CalumII]

Yes. I'm in the middle of compiling a few CDs worth of music to hand out to all new students - not just piping, but folk music and song in general for students to soak up. Not many have that background nowadays.

Cheers,
Calum

[Gord™ ©1980]

Originally posted by Roger Huth:
"Right. Let's start then. First of all can I just ask you to........." ...tell me why you're interested in playing the bagpipes, and what would you like to ultimatley accomplish by playing the bagpipes.

:hatoff:
Cheers,
Gord

[Melissa Bautz]

I usually discuss the commitment factor, the student's expectations, as well as my expectations on the telephone before taking on a student. That is, said student wouldn't get a 1st lesson unless s/he has convinced me that s/he needs to plan on practicing 30 minutes per day.

I also ensure that the student has an acceptable practice chanter and beginner-music-book-of-choice before the 1st lesson.

Enter 1st lesson: If I haven't already done so, I first play my pipes for the student, a sort of recital, to show what can be done on the instrument. After the "recital", I show the student how to hold the chanter and how to play the scale and read the music. End of first lesson.

That's how I do things.
Melissa

[vacuumpiper]

I'm with Gord, I want to know first of all what brought them to the starting point. Partly this an ice breaker but most of all it's about knowing who you are teaching and why.

The learning part of the lesson starts with a quick review of the chanter then finger placement and fingering for the scale including an over view of how the notes on the staff correspond.

Usually that fills the time pretty well but if there are still a few minutes I will pull out my pipes and explain the parts and what they do etc. Most people have never been that close to a set of pipes and really like the chance to see things like the reeds and bag and feel what the weight of them is and stuff like that. Nice carrot to dangle in front of them to keep their interest up durring the more frustrating times.

I really like Richards dots for where the fingers should line up on the chanter. With some of my students it would have been nice to have those dots tatooed on!

[Pipepoop]

Richard Mao wrote: First thing I show is how to open the practice chanter and then close it... without breaking the reed. And I have the student do it several times on her/his chanter. That may not be what Roger is looking for but it is right on the mark. I'm a band director and usually the entire first week of a beginning band class is spent just learning to open the case without spilling the contents, closing it without crushing something and eventually assembling and disassembling it. You would not believe the things a student can do to an instrument in their first year. :eek:

[Roger Huth]

It isn't the first thing I show, but I do devote an entire lesson at some stage on taking the instrument from the pipe box, putting it back again, putting the pipes onto the shoulder and then back off again. Until the student looks totally at ease and professional.

[Steve Brittain]

A little story about the importance of spending time early on being sure that the very basics of PC set up are correct: A friend at work wanted to learn to play pipes and so I suggested that he get either COP or piping center tutor books and a PC and then come to see me when he had them. Being an independent sort, he got his chanter, but then spend almost a month working on his own before, cornering me in the hallway at work and saying that it just wasn't sounding right and what should he do differently. The next day he brought his chanter over to the office so that I could see what was going on. He took out the chanter, took the reed out of the film canister he was keeping it in. Then he inserted the reed into the mouth piece of the chanter and started to play. It turns out he had played the oboe before taking up pipes.

take care,
Steve

[PiPeZiLLa]

With the first lesson I gave to my nephew(last week) I...

1. made flash cards of the individual notes
2. showed him how to hold the chanter
3. showed him the parts of the bagpipes and how they worked.
4. reminded him what his uncle will do if he didn't practice... :)

He is 7, so I'm trying to cram as much piping knowledge as I can into him.:0 His fingers are still a wee bit to small so I'm probably going to wait till he is 8..but its worth a try

[bob864]

When people ask me why I want to play the pipes I tell them "because they're loud." That is *a* reason, but maybe not *the* reason. I just want to.

I told my instructor I had been working on playing the individual notes of the scale, so I was told to demonstrate. I did, and we were off.

If someone had asked me a year ago if I wanted to join a band I would have said "no" but here I am a year later, a member of a band and having a great time doing it.

I think what the intro to Rhythmic Fingerwork actually says is that it isn't for beginners *who intend to teach themselves*, but I thought that beginners working with an instructor are specifically mentioned as a target audience.

Bob

[kellypiper]

For me,the whole line of questioning on whys and wherefors and what do you want to achieve,is fairly irrelevant. I have had students who were ticking all the boxes and were highly motivated who lasted a couple of weeks and gave up. I have also had kids who came along because their friend did or their Mum/Dad/Granny wanted them to
who dicovered an inner passion and ability that they didn't know they had.

I just go straight to where to put their fingers and try for a low g. I also find Richard's dots very effective. The ones that hardly fade after a week are best(Mums really hate that).

Christy

[Roger Huth]

I started a new student this week and found myself following Richard's method.
I accidently jumped the first stage though and went straight to him gently blowing the reed and gradually increasing pressure to get beyond the squawk.
It worked a treat and he is away practising going up the scale for a week.
Thanks Richard :thumb:

[Snooper]

After trying to put students at ease the first few minutes, the first thing I'll do is ask them

"You ever make sock puppets? when you were a kid?(if applicable). You know, the ones where one hand talks to the other?"

While I wait for their expressions to return to normal, I explain the importance of the "sock puppet" theory.

If a student can understand the sock puppet idea it prevents SOOO many things from going wrong at the very beginning; things that are virtually impossible to correct once someone has learned to play. It's sad when an incredibly eager adult learner comes to me and I see:

- a wrist cocked back in such an awkward position their finger tendons are all bunched up at the wrist, making dexterity impossible.

- Either/both thumbs positioned FLAT against the chanter, vs slightly angled.

I know it's a silly concept, but finger/wrist posture is to me, the equivalent of proper set up in golf. While you may occassionally hit a good shot with a poor setup, you increase your chances of success exponentially with correct finger/wrist posture.

For those of you sitting at your computer now, take your hands off your keyboard and pretend one hand is talking to the other. Is that ANY different than how your hands and fingers should be positioned when on the practice chanter?

jim ryan

[TStephens]

I generally try to find out a little about their musical background before the first lesson so I know whether they have ever played an instrument or have any concept of reading music.

At the first lesson, I first show the student the parts of a practice chanter and how to take it apart and put it back together properly. Although almost everyone has polypenco chanters now, instead of blackwood, I still talk about gripping the chanter above the thin neck to avoid breaking it if the hemp is swollen and it is hard to get apart.

Then I show the student how to hold the hands, and how to play high A. I have found that top hand notes are easier, especially for young hands that have trouble with getting all the holes covered. So I teach top hand notes first.

If the student is an adult or an older child, I focus on correct position for both hands. If it is a young child, I don't worry too much about whether the bottom hand is positioned correctly until we get to bottom hand notes. For a very young child, I may only teach two notes the first lesson - high A and high G. I have written a simple children's book for learning the scale that shows whole notes, half notes, quarter notes. At the end of the first lesson, a child can read and count whole, half and quarter notes and can play high A and high G with correct timing. An older child might cover all four of the top hand notes, or if they have a reasonable musical background may cover more.

I have gotten to where I use the same book for adults, basically to get them comfortable with playing the scale. The book has a number of not terribly profound exercises with names like (High A and G Rock" (switching between high A and high G using whole, half, and quarter notes), and "Down in a Deep Hole" (D, C, B, low A, low G - the first exercise where the student goes all the way down to low G, a tough accomplishment for little 5 or 6 year old hands). An adult who has played other instruments and who can read music will cover the whole book in one lesson. A small child might take a few weeks.

But back to what goes into the first lesson - I like to get the student onto the chanter and playing something, even if only a couple of notes, as soon as possible.

All the theory, the goals, etc., can come later. Until a person has achieved some reasonable level of experience, they don't really know what they are capable of or what they want to do anyway. I had a student once whose initial purpose for learning the pipes was to be able to play Loch Lomond on the pipes. After getting a decent grounding in the basics and learning a number of tunes, this student became hooked on pipes and went on to become a very accomplished piper with a wonderful knack for creating musical sets, for doing some wonderful combinations of pipes and pipe organ, and putting great showmanship into how a performance was delivered.

[John Bottomley]

Once we've established goals and so forth, I always start the actual playing instruction with a High A and work down the scale. It's so difficult to organize all your fingers to cover the holes that it generates enormous hand tension--so much easier to start from the top and master one finger at a time.

Although Richard's idea of opening and closing the chanter over and over is brilliant, and I plan to incorporate it!

[EquusRacer]

"Right. Let's start then. First of all can I just ask you to........."

[if it's a child]:..."tell me how you took an interest in bagpipes." [But what I'm truly after is establishing if it's the child's idea or his parents].

[if it's an adult]:...pretty much the same as above; but, as others have stated prior, with the goal of establishing thier interest, goals and commitment level.