"modern" pitch

[Ceannt]

I was wondering, as a maker how you feel about the gradual increase in pitch?
I know, that in order to make a living, you have to make what "the market" wants. If you were making pipes as you personaly prefered, how would they differ?(not just in pitch).
Thank you so much for being available for this forum!!

[Ian Lawther]

Adding a little to the above question I am aware that a concert G Northumbrian chanter is harder to play and more temperamental than the traditional F chanter. Modern concert D uilleann pipes are similarly fickle when compared to the older sets pitched between C and Bb (what are usually grouped together as "flat sets" in modern parlance). Talking to makers of both these instruments I am told that the difficulties come from trying to raise the pitch above that which the instrument is happy with for the sake of modern standards of pitch (G and D for a lot of traditional folk music).

Is there a similar problem with raising the pitch of the GHB. Do some notes become more unstable and are we creating problems through higher pitch? Are we pushing things beyond where the original design of the instrument will allow it to go - in order to raise the pitch further (if that is desired) should someone take a step back and totally redesign the chanter and reed?

Ian

[Pat Farrell]

Joe,

Would you, as a maker of any instrument other than the GHB even need to wonder about this problem? Does an oboe, flute, violin, or even piano maker have to keep notching up the pitch of their instrument? I personally feel that this persistent upward pitch creep of the GHB has caused much harm to our instrument, primarily driven by the constant drive toward what is perceived as "brightness" by influential pipe bands and the chanter makers who support them. It will take a bold and brave initiative to lock the GHB at, for instance, pipe low A at concert B flat, then create chanters at the Myxolidian spots where they can lock to the drone harmonics - exactly what we try to do today with tape, carving, and constant fiddling (OK, within the restrictions of reeds, but if all other factors were standardized, then reed making might follow suit).

Just my 2 cents worth, YMMV. Pat

[Ceannt]

Pat,
Flute makers are also driving the pitch up, esp. those in Japan. I agree, the "modern" pitch is getting way too high. To my hearing the higher pitch makes pipes sound "thin". High "A" is not as clear and does not have the volume it should, as pipe chanters did that were made, say back in the 1920s.
Mr. Kron, any plans on producing an "A"=440 chanter for those of us that want to bust the trend and go in the other direction?

[Bob]

Oh Oh..

I think we're heading in a confusing direction with this specific thread..

Discussion ? Please use this Forum for Q&A only - I know that is a change for us.. but .. We have the T&I Forum for discussions.

:hatoff:

[The Pipe Guy]

Continuing to build on the questions above. Given the fact that the GHB is a transposing instrument, is there any movement in the pipe manufacturing community to standardize the tuning pitch? That is to have our tuning note an "A" or "Bb" instead of somewhere in between.

[kron]

There's a lot to say here. I'll answer tomorrow.

[kron]

I was wondering, as a maker how you feel about the gradual increase in pitch?
I know, that in order to make a living, you have to make what "the market" wants. If you were making pipes as you personaly prefered, how would they differ?(not just in pitch).
Thank you so much for being available for this forum!!As a designer I don't like the increase in pitch. It makes everything more difficult. But I think there isn't much chance of it going much higher, and I will continue making pipe chanters as sharp as people want them.

I love every product in my lines of pipes and pipe chanters. Each has its strengths.

As a craftsman the most satisfying set to make would be cocuswood full mounted ivory.

I'll revisit this thread all week, replying and commenting on the other posts. This is very important stuff and the discussion will involve everyone in piping.

[brad]

Brad - I moved this post to a new thread..

Bob

[kron]

Originally posted by Ian Lawther:
Is there a similar problem with raising the pitch of the GHB. Do some notes become more unstable and are we creating problems through higher pitch? Are we pushing things beyond where the original design of the instrument will allow it to go - in order to raise the pitch further (if that is desired) should someone take a step back and totally redesign the chanter and reed?

Ian There is a similar problem. Good tone from the whole high hand especially is now harder to get. The power that laymen associate with the pipes is disappearing. It is not that new pipe chanters are less loud, but that the higher pitch make them sound less loud and more "bright". The reverse of this psychoacoustic effect is that lower pitch makes pipe chanters sound louder and "fuller" (and some would say "duller" - hence the higher pitch.)

With the fabulous advances in reeds the higher pitches are easily accommodated by high quality old pipes, at least from a practical standpoint.

No one should or will take a step back. The course of the average pitch of pipe chanters will be decided in the future as it has been in the past: the collective desires and output of pipers, bagpipe makers, and reed makers. The market will drive the pitch.

[kron]

Originally posted by Ceannt:
Pat,
Flute makers are also driving the pitch up, esp. those in Japan. I agree, the "modern" pitch is getting way too high. To my hearing the higher pitch makes pipes sound "thin". High "A" is not as clear and does not have the volume it should, as pipe chanters did that were made, say back in the 1920s.
Mr. Kron, any plans on producing an "A"=440 chanter for those of us that want to bust the trend and go in the other direction? No such plans, but the trend could reverse any time. It may already have reversed. But because pipers, pipe chanter makers, and reed makers all have to participate, it will be a gradual process, just as the upward pitch creep has been.

[kron]

Originally posted by Rick G:
Continuing to build on the questions above. Given the fact that the GHB is a transposing instrument, is there any movement in the pipe manufacturing community to standardize the tuning pitch? That is to have our tuning note an "A" or "Bb" instead of somewhere in between. That's up to the piper. For example : your pipe chanter tuning a bit sharper that B flat, but you want B flat? Find a bit flatter reed. Because good reeds can vary so much, even those made by the same maker (likewise wood pipe chanters) any attempt at standardization would be quixotic. The next maker would come along to "one-up" the last.

I personally like this chaotic situation; it is a good environment for individuality and non-conformism.