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-   -   Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer! (http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/showthread.php?t=166556)

Matt Willis Bagpiper 05-30-2018 12:27 PM

Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
A video on why (and how) I'm replacing all of the traditional hemp on all of my pipes for fully polyester thread, but briefly (since the video is long!)...

Being polyester, it:
1. Cannot swell with moisture!
2. Shouldn't ever rot, as it's not natural!
3. Available in a ton of colors!
4. Being finer than hemp, get exactly the fitting you want on your joints!

No financial anything here (not selling anything), just wanting to share what I feel has totally changed my approach to wrapping the joints on a bagpipe, be it highland, smallpipe, uilleann, etc.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BEm3...ature=youtu.be

plainspiper 05-30-2018 12:42 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
WOW thats cool. I've been thinking of doing the same thing. Hemp drives me nuts and it seems like dental floss gets smashed after a while.

Matt Willis Bagpiper 05-30-2018 01:19 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
I tried dental floss once many, many years ago (like 1998...), and made the mistake of using scented dental floss, thinking it would keep smelling nice. That was really not the case. Over the course of a few months, it started stinking terribly, like a rotting raccoon. :doh:

I also found there was too much wax for my liking.

I suppose unwaxed dental floss could possibly work, but I've heard (though not confirmed) that there are mini-abrasive particles on the floss to help remove plaque/debris from your teeth... ?:(

bob864 05-30-2018 03:17 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Since my GH bagpipes are made of wood, they swell and contract with the seasons. I suspect that polyester thread, since it has no give, might not be the best choice. But my smallpipes are made of plastic, so maybe polyester would be a good choice for them.

I was talking to a piper who everyone has probably heard of. He said, "Well, they're your pipes so do what you want, but you don't need anything other than waxed hemp."

Anndrah 05-30-2018 03:28 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
The problem with nylon and polyester is that there is no give, and they are abrasive. People have broken out of jail by cutting through Ironwood bars with dental floss. Hemp with beeswax, properly maintained can last many years, has some give too.
Curious to see if the current change in marijuana laws will make actual hemp available.

MichiganGaidar 05-30-2018 06:34 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
The real question is if choice of thread material should matter in a "nuts-and-bolts" way, and the answer is, as far as I'm concerned, a resounding "NO!".

Regarding seized joints:

Negligence. I'm not particularly careful or fastidious with my tenon wrapping and I have never had this occur on any of the wind instruments I own, including some of which are directly mouth-blown. Thread choice should not matter: you should know how tight you can pack your tenons.

Regarding dimensional changes in the wood:
I have a few Bulgarian pipes made from unidentified fruitwood (maybe dogwood or plum: very light and almost punky compared to ABW) - Not a single loose mount (they're just press-fitted, by the way), and I never need to change or otherwise mess with threads due to changes in how the tenons fit together. If your Highland bagpipe, made professionally from tropical hardwoods which are dense enough to sink in water, is less dimensionally-stable than a 300-dollar gaida made from God only knows what wood, the fault lies with the manufacturer, and no choice of threads will make up for it.

Regarding hygeine:

Does this even have to be addressed? That critters should be growing on your hemp is a disgrace to the instrument and the owner. Threads on my gaida get treated with sheep fat - and even they have never gone rancid on me. I only have to replace them once a year, at most, when the threads are worn out from repeated assembly, adjustment, disassembly.

In short, use whatever you like to pack your joints, but if you have to make rocket science of it, you should be concerned.

BGP 05-31-2018 06:11 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anndrah (Post 1327629)
The problem with nylon and polyester is that there is no give, and they are abrasive. People have broken out of jail by cutting through Ironwood bars with dental floss. Hemp with beeswax, properly maintained can last many years, has some give too.
Curious to see if the current change in marijuana laws will make actual hemp available.



Actual hemp is already available, hemp fiber has never been illegal in the US and most places.

el gaitero 05-31-2018 06:35 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattpiper (Post 1327619)


Being polyester, it:
1. Cannot swell with moisture!


This is one of the reasons for using hemp....airtight joints...

Tedley 05-31-2018 08:15 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Hemp thread and all hemp products were made illegal, along with the drug. Hemp fiber was not available until the early 1970's. It is sold in one-ply (half the weight of yellow "hemp") and two-ply.

Matt Willis Bagpiper 05-31-2018 08:38 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob864 (Post 1327624)
Since my GH bagpipes are made of wood, they swell and contract with the seasons. I suspect that polyester thread, since it has no give, might not be the best choice. But my smallpipes are made of plastic, so maybe polyester would be a good choice for them.

The ferrules and mounts on most pipes are made out of plastic or metal that doesn't change dimensionally with the wood, and that doesn't equate to broken pipes, so I can't see how this is any different. It's possible the polyester thread could even act like a ferrule on the end of the joint, strengthening it from splitting/cracking (though I suspect any wrapped string/yarn has that potential).

Quote:

Originally Posted by Anndrah
The problem with nylon and polyester is that there is no give, and they are abrasive.

Dental floss may well be abrasive (as it's designed to remove plaque from teeth), but I am not finding any sort of abrasiveness with the polyester thread. I'll be watching for any signs of wear on the receiving end of the pipes.

With the ability to make the joint as tight/loose as you desire (since the polyester thread so much finer than hemp/linen), I find I can actually have less tension on any given joint and still have it be airtight. To my mind, less tension = less friction = less wear... :thumb:

Quote:

Originally Posted by el gaitero
This is one of the reasons for using hemp....airtight joints...

Not exactly sure what you're getting at here... You quoted me discussing how polyester thread doesn't swell with moisture, which isn't related to an airtight fit. ?:(

BGP 05-31-2018 10:22 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Tedley (Post 1327655)
Hemp thread and all hemp products were made illegal, along with the drug. Hemp fiber was not available until the early 1970's. It is sold in one-ply (half the weight of yellow "hemp") and two-ply.



Ah, Thanks for the additional background.

gisahag 06-01-2018 05:36 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
“Shouldn'tever rot, as it's not natural!”
Yes but generally on this planet, where there’s moisture there’s life. So some micro-organism or other will end up living between the fibres. Probably a smelly one :sick:


Neil


bob864 06-01-2018 06:24 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Anndrah (Post 1327629)
Curious to see if the current change in marijuana laws will make actual hemp available.

Hemp is sold in the beading section of craft stores (like Michaels or Hobby Lobby). I have it in four sizes.

el gaitero 06-01-2018 06:35 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Wondering how Ive survived since mid last century with plain ol’ yellow...then waxed yellow ‘hemp’ from piping supply shops. And some black waxed whatever.

Now every so often I discover yet another near full kop tucked away in a different stash box. I must have 8-10 kops to last this century.

Matt Willis Bagpiper 06-01-2018 07:18 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by gisahag (Post 1327702)
“Shouldn'tever rot, as it's not natural!”
Yes but generally on this planet, where there’s moisture there’s life. So some micro-organism or other will end up living between the fibres. Probably a smelly one :sick:

I don't let moisture "pool" up on any of my joints, parts, or otherwise. And regular hemp can get pretty stinky too if not allowed to dry. A spritz of MacClens or other cleaner goes a along way toward keeping the thread (or whatever part) fresh, as does regular airing out of the pipe bag (I play a synthetic).

I've had this thread on my practice chanter for quite some time now and there's no hint of stinkyness, but again, I take it apart when I'm done playing and let it dry.

longwind 06-01-2018 07:37 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
I get my natural hemp, one ply and two ply from http://www.piperssupply.com. I don't know Ted but his prices are great and his shipping is fast. Great products!

Peter.Bailey.Bagpiper 06-01-2018 03:06 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
I've done this to my PC and pipes and will similarly report in with my results over time. So far, I'm loving what it has done for my PC - the joint suffers no swelling or binding after practice sessions and dries out no better or worse than waxed hemp. Given that this is a pricey MacLellan chanter that cannot be replaced, I'm quite happy that it's no longer ever difficult to remove the top.

On a broader note - I don't think on principle it's as bombastic an idea as some here are suggesting. New ideas often seem odd and that's to be expected, but when you consider modern GHB playing, there's a fair bit of kit in our instruments that's synthetic already so it shouldn't seem loony to suggest a synthetic alternative for joint assembly. I imagine the first person to make a synthetic drone reed got a few crossways looks in his day.

"Because we've always done it that way" is just about one of the worst philosophies to have if you care about progress. It even has a name in the pantheon of logical fallacies and there goes by Appeal to Tradition.

At any rate, I was curious enough to actually try it and not rely on suppositions for which I really have no basis. If it's a crap idea then it's a crap idea but so far so good!

plainspiper 06-01-2018 03:45 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Hemp is not the same variety of plant as marijuana, both are cannabis but hemp carries a low THC. That controversy should have been well dissipated by now. There is essentially no psychoactive substance in hemp, it grows differently, and has been de-regulated for a long time, and not just in Colorado. I would imagine it will make a comeback as a natural fiber as more farmers start growing it again. My hope is that someone will eventually sell the real deal bagpipe hemp is it used to be sold--just for the sake of historicity.

Incidentally, I've been told that the last words of any failing business or organization is usually ""Because we've always done it that way"...and agreed, it "is just about one of the worst philosophies to have". It does not benefit innovation, nor does it benefit any future success if there are better things to try out. Hemp or cotton works fine, but if it's ease of use and less hassle..give me my dental floss and/or a good poly thread.

bob864 06-01-2018 05:55 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by mattpiper (Post 1327656)
The ferrules and mounts on most pipes are made out of plastic or metal that doesn't change dimensionally with the wood, and that doesn't equate to broken pipes, so I can't see how this is any different. I(

Metal ferrules would seem to be the cause of the infamous conical tuning chambers.

Matt Willis Bagpiper 06-01-2018 08:17 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob864 (Post 1327735)
Metal ferrules would seem to be the cause of the infamous conical tuning chambers.

I had a mechanical engineer as a student many years ago, and he commented how he didn't think the ferrules extended anywhere near far enough up the tops of the drone, given the range the upper chamber was expected to remain dimensionally stable for tuning purposes.

So... I agree, but that's more a fault of current (which is classic and seemingly unchangeable) bagpipe aesthetics vs. our instrument being engineered to do what we want them to! That is, if this engineer is to be trusted! (I'm certainly not an engineer, but his thoughts on the matter definitely made sense...)

John McCain 06-02-2018 11:04 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by bob864 (Post 1327735)
Metal ferrules would seem to be the cause of the infamous conical tuning chambers.

Leaving pipes assembled is the cause.

thevoidboy 06-03-2018 02:18 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
I just performed a test of my wooden and my plastic Peter Henderson chanters.

Put them in 1° refrigerator for 5, 10 and 15 minutes. These times were long enough to affect a change in temperature on the chanters.

Measured three lengths (full, top of high G, top of low A). Measured width at low A.

Absolutely no change occurred whatsoever on either chanter.

This is not to say that heat or cold does not have an impact. It is to say (1) assertions should be replicated before accepted as fact, and (2) it is far less likely that the chanter changes than does the reed.

If you see different results, post them. I’ll leave my chanters in for an hour and see if that makes a difference.



-J David Hester, PhD
Alt Pibroch Club
www.altpibroch.com

MichiganGaidar 06-03-2018 03:43 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Your experiment and my experience would indicate the same thing: Wood, when properly seasoned and properly worked, is very stable. Any appreciable dimensional wandering is a flaw.

Green Piper 06-03-2018 09:25 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Not quite sure what you were testing by calling the chanters. Anyway, there may be changes to diameter due to temperature.

Also, cold air is more dense than warm air, and I am sure that will affect pitch, but I have never tested it.

Charlie

thevoidboy 06-04-2018 03:31 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Piper (Post 1327835)
Not quite sure what you were testing by calling the chanters. Anyway, there may be changes to diameter due to temperature.

Also, cold air is more dense than warm air, and I am sure that will affect pitch, but I have never tested it.

Charlie



This was a cross-post, killing two birds with one stone.

On the one hand, lots of FUD about instrument swelling. Swelling is due to hemp, not to the instrument. (Of course, laws of physics apply to any material.)

On the other hand, there’s lot of FUD about pitch changes due to weather conditions. Again, the usual culprits cited are materials of the instrument. Pitch changes are due to impact on reeds.

(That said: this was a cold test. Heat test is up next.)

OP was mentioning the value of polyester thread. Makes sense to me: if a product does not react to moisture and temperature to the degree that hemp does, perhaps it’s worth a serious look as yet one more innovative way towards stabilization and ease of maintenance.

Often, however, there is a very nostalgic, conservative dismissal of innovation supported by idiosyncratic tastes, romanticization, and/or pure anecdotal hearsay.

I just wanted to introduce empiricism into the discussion.



-J David Hester, PhD
Alt Pibroch Club
www.altpibroch.com

Paul M Burke 06-04-2018 04:04 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by thevoidboy (Post 1327843)
. ..,snip...........(Of course, laws of physics apply to any material.)

On the other hand, there’s lot of FUD about pitch changes due to weather conditions. Again, the usual culprits cited are materials of the instrument. Pitch changes are due to impact on reeds.

Snip

Often, however, there is a very nostalgic, conservative dismissal of innovation supported by idiosyncratic tastes, romanticization, and/or pure anecdotal hearsay.




I'm almost positive that reeds are made of materials also, and while I think technically a grass, they look very like and behave like wood. I'm sure that another major component of reeds is hemp.



I don't think you can say that the effectiveness of hemp is anecdotal hearsay. It seems to have worked fine for many, many years. As to conservative dismissal of innovation, I think that piping today in terms of playing styles, tune types, reed types and materials, bags, air management and even turning and decoration have undergone huge inovation in the last 30 years.

With regard to sewing thread on, say, tuning pins, if the condensation in the bore is not absorbed by this polyester thread does it "pool" in the bore? or find the area of least resistance and flow downwards? Will this flow of water erode the wood?

I'm sure I'll have other questions. I like a good inovation. But not change for changes sake.

Paul.

moderntraditional 06-04-2018 04:41 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M Burke (Post 1327845)
I'm almost positive that reeds are made of materials also, and while I think technically a grass, they look very like and behave like wood. I'm sure that another major component of reeds is hemp.

The wooden cane of the reed is very thin and much more prone to heat and moisture. That's simple physics. It is much more likely that reeds are going to be the cause of pitch change in the instrument, than that the plastic or wood of the drones or chanter are the cause for pitch change. That's my point. And, if you like: replicate my experiment and report your results.



Quote:

I don't think you can say that the effectiveness of hemp is anecdotal hearsay. It seems to have worked fine for many, many years.
Not my argument. My argument is that while hemp may have been perfectly sufficient, the proposal that polyester string may hold more advantages is worth pursuing.

I have literally have people tell me that they hear a difference between yellow and black hemp. I find that either completely ridiculous, and worrying admirable that someone can hear so sensitively that the color and composition of thread on a chanter reed and pins can be determined by ear.

Etc etc. It is this kind of thing that happens a LOT in the piping world: assertions without backing. Hypotheses without testing.

Quote:

As to conservative dismissal of innovation, I think that piping today in terms of playing styles, tune types, reed types and materials, bags, air management and even turning and decoration have undergone huge inovation in the last 30 years.
And yet, we continue to hear how "cane is superior" and "hide bags make all the difference in the world to tone". These are conservative arguments that have little empirical support.

Except with cane. A post in another thread actually reports scientific, replicable tests and data that suggest a much greater harmonic frequency to cane. At which point, the question is one of trade off, the balance between maintenance and stability vs tone. That's why many of us avoid cane: we get perfectly fine tone with composite reeds, and they are a lot easier to manage. Not everyone feels that way, and that's fine. But at least we are now talking about empirical data.


Quote:

With regard to sewing thread on, say, tuning pins, if the condensation in the bore is not absorbed by this polyester thread does it "pool" in the bore? or find the area of least resistance and flow downwards? Will this flow of water erode the wood?
Let's call that a hypothesis. Test it and report the results.

Quote:

I'm sure I'll have other questions. I like a good inovation. But not change for changes sake.

Paul.
And yet, change for change sake allows us to experiment, test, reject, but also potentially innovate.

So - I guess I'll rethread my pipes and see if polyester threads are as good as the OP's experience of them.

:^)

Green Piper 06-04-2018 05:58 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
My concern would be friction of polyester on my pipes’ 80 yr old tuning chambers. However, if it were waxed the friction would mostly be negated.

But...... some pipers swear that unwaxed hemp on tuning pins gives better tone. Of course unwaxed hemp does swell when wet.

I suppose as a competent piper, one finds what works, but is also willing to try other things.

Charlie

Matt Willis Bagpiper 06-04-2018 07:06 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Paul M Burke (Post 1327845)
With regard to sewing thread on, say, tuning pins, if the condensation in the bore is not absorbed by this polyester thread does it "pool" in the bore? or find the area of least resistance and flow downwards? Will this flow of water erode the wood?

If you watch the YouTube I posted in the first post, you'll see that yes, the "water" does pool above the polyester thread. In this case, it was my practice chanter, and I had purposely given it a solid playing session without removing the top at any point to dry it out. There was a lot of spit and condensation built up and you can see it spill out when I remove the top. That being said, I was able to remove the top section with absolute ease as the polyester thread did not swell and caused no addition tension or binding (it's biggest benefit for me).

In my experience, you don't want the hemp absorbing *any* moisture, as that is exactly what causes the hemp to swell (the moisture has to go somewhere). A small amount of swelling of the hemp makes for a difficult joint to move (especially tuning chambers). A lot of swelling of the hemp could readily mean cracking your instrument.

That being said, I play my pipes *a lot*. I am fortunate enough to be a full-time professional bagpiper here in the Dallas area, and play my pipes for 60 to 90 minutes each day. Since re-wrapping my pipes in polyester, even after extended playing, there has not been enough moisture condensing on the bores of my drones to cause any sort of pooling of fluid.

I play a synthetic bag (the outlier here it would seem, preferring a simple Bannatyne medium bags to any sort of hybrid or leather bag), and I do use moisture control (the Highland Reeds MCS system to be specific). As Bruce Hitchings describes in his videos for this system, the moisture control also acts as a heat exchanger, so I find the cooler air getting to the drone is more constant regardless of outside weather and keeps my tone more stable. But in any case, I almost never have any real amount of moisture make it through this system into my drones; certainly not enough to cause any sort of pooling of fluid.

I purposely waited several months and played through a variety of weather and conditions before making my video and sharing this with everyone. Whether it's hot, cold, wet, dry... it simply didn't matter. The joints wrapped with polyester simply work better than any other material I've used. I've been playing and restoring/repairing bagpipes for over twenty years. I have re-wrapped well over a hundred bagpipes with hemp, be it real hemp, yellow unwaxed hemp, black waxed hemp, yellow waxed hemp, or some sort of combo. I've used dental floss. All sorts of different waxes. Teflon. You name it... None of these work as well as the polyester thread.

Quote:

Originally Posted by Green Piper (Post 1327849)
My concern would be friction of polyester on my pipes’ 80 yr old tuning chambers. However, if it were waxed the friction would mostly be negated.

I wish I could go back and re-wrap some of the heirloom instruments I've had the opportunity to work on with polyester, as I can make a completely airtight fitting with less tension on the joint and no fear of future swelling to cause cracking. For these older instruments, instead of hemp seal (which has mineral oil in it, which cause impregnate itself in the wood), I use Doctor Slick cork crease by Bore Doctor, as it is a tallow-based lubricate and cannot damage the wood. It's not quite as smooth as the hemp seal (toilet ring wax), but still helps lubricate the joint.

That said, I have found no abrasive qualities to the polyester thread when wrapped as a joint. i will continue to monitor this, and will report *any* wear on the pipes should it occur. No dog in this hunt financially; I just want us all using the best materials we can for our intruments.

Yikes! Did I type enough? :grin:

PNB 02-16-2019 09:24 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by longwind (Post 1327707)
I get my natural hemp, one ply and two ply from http://www.piperssupply.com. I don't know Ted but his prices are great and his shipping is fast. Great products!


I just ordered and received a roll of natural hemp. I bought a used set of vintage pipes last year that were hemped with natural hemp. Joints were still snug, no air loss. I really liked the way it felt/worked. Just ended up with a set of McCallum AB4's that I am thinking of hemping with natural. Any thoughts?

Chris C. 02-16-2019 10:53 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
If it works and you like it, why change to something different?

A lot of it comes down to care and maintenance.

I went back to all waxed hemp after some years using Teflon tape as well.

The Teflon tape turned out to be a bad idea. After a while it breaks down, and there were other issues. I keep a roll in my pipe case for emergencies only.

Either way, hemp (with applied beeswax) has worked well for thousands of pipers over the years. I think the key is the care and maintenance, and that would probably apply to any material used.

TwitchyFingers 02-24-2019 03:30 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
I've been hemping pipes with dental floss since at least 2000. I have found no difficulties by doing it; only advantages. For it to be abrasive is pish unless you're torquing your drones at 1200 rpm. I recently inspected the drones of my 2005 Gibsons and have found no evidence of abrasive damage from dental floss, and I haven't had to add to, subtract from or otherwise monkey about with them in years.
Go for it. Use it. Spread the news. Piping advances and myths fade one funeral at a time.

Dan Bell 02-25-2019 09:29 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Do you all regularly play in the shower? Or maybe in pouring rain? Just curious. :grin::grin:

If your drone slides are getting that wet under normal conditions, I think you've got a serious moisture control problem.

I agree that the cane reeds change more than the instruments themselves (the physics is pretty self-explanatory). My (anecdotal) experience suggests that wood is a better insulator than plastic. That means that it resists heating better in the summer and cools more slowly in the winter. There's a sane explanation for that, too: wood is porous, containing more air spaces than an equivalent volume of plastic (it's the air that is the effective insulator). I'm not really interested in devising an experiment to prove this theory, but doing so wouldn't be especially difficult.

William McKenzie 02-25-2019 10:32 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Dan Bell (Post 1335214)
Do you all regularly play in the shower? Or maybe in pouring rain? Just curious. :grin::grin:

If you play outdoors in the Pacific NW it can happen, but I suspect some pipers have a second set for those kinds of band environments. I do not and it's partly why I'm interested in acetyl pipes this time around.

One thing is that I like the idea of this material Matt's shown us for hemping (and have some in my Amazon cart right now as soon as I need other stuff to make a larger order). I know what is old is new and these types of threads rehash every so often with the same amount for and against arguments. I've used tie in cord on my practice chanter and on my drones and mouthpiece where they met the stocks to great effect. Worked very well and never rotted or bunched up like clumpy waxed linen can.

I personally think it's great to try new things and not get hung up on what's been done in the past especially when it comes to smaller items.

Neffer 03-06-2019 05:26 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Many years ago I was heavily into archery. Made my own bow strings, arrows, etc. I use the waxed bow string on my pipe joints and have not had any problems.
One spool would last a lifetime, just another option.

Leong 03-06-2019 07:58 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Neffer (Post 1335404)
Many years ago I was heavily into archery. Made my own bow strings, arrows, etc. I use the waxed bow string on my pipe joints and have not had any problems.
One spool would last a lifetime, just another option.

That's interesting. To me at least, because I still do recurve archery and I've thought of using bow string material just like you say. But I'd thought it was a bit of an overkill and have never tried. Overkill because the thing about these string materials is their high breaking strength (in excess of 50lbs if memory serves). I have used them to tie in a chanter stock - works very well. Should be way superior to the standard bag tie-in cord (and low-stretch too which is what the archer wants). The Brownell B-50 is quite economical - $10+ for a whole spool (others would be $20-50 and more):

http://www.lancasterarchery.com/brow...erial-1-4.html

3D Piper 03-06-2019 10:56 AM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
I started with o-rings, switched to hemp, then came back to O-rings. They are always exactly the correct size, never shrink/swell, and are almost 100% maintenance free. Once a year I may have to lubricate my lower bass drone (from putting it on/removing it from the case).


-Matthew

William McKenzie 03-06-2019 01:46 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Leong (Post 1335415)
That's interesting. To me at least, because I still do recurve archery and I've thought of using bow string material just like you say. But I'd thought it was a bit of an overkill and have never tried. Overkill because the thing about these string materials is their high breaking strength (in excess of 50lbs if memory serves). I have used them to tie in a chanter stock - works very well. Should be way superior to the standard bag tie-in cord (and low-stretch too which is what the archer wants). The Brownell B-50 is quite economical - $10+ for a whole spool (others would be $20-50 and more):

I feel like the stretch is a crucial point of tie in cord I believe. When tying in a bag the 'give' of standard tie in cord is what allows you to get balanced wraps around your stock while simultaneously helping to pull or contract the bag material into your stocks in an even fashion (sometimes it's hard to maintain a certain pull on the cord as you're flipping your pipe bag around). The tacky grip of the wax also helps a lot. Personal preference I suppose.



Quote:

Originally Posted by 3D Piper (Post 1335420)
I started with o-rings, switched to hemp, then came back to O-rings. They are always exactly the correct size, never shrink/swell, and are almost 100% maintenance free. Once a year I may have to lubricate my lower bass drone (from putting it on/removing it from the case).


-Matthew

O-rings on a set that came intended to be used with O-rings (such as older Dunbars) or removing hemping and adding O-rings to any old set of pipes?

If the latter, how did you find the correct size, type of ring material (so it's not overly grippy or tearing apart) and did you buy a lot so they could be stacked up the end of the tuning pin or does 2-3 evenly spaced work? Seems like they would roll themselves with the top sections.

propuckstopper 03-06-2019 05:23 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by William McKenzie (Post 1335425)
O-rings on a set that came intended to be used with O-rings (such as older Dunbars) or removing hemping and adding O-rings to any old set of pipes?

If the latter, how did you find the correct size, type of ring material (so it's not overly grippy or tearing apart) and did you buy a lot so they could be stacked up the end of the tuning pin or does 2-3 evenly spaced work? Seems like they would roll themselves with the top sections.

I'd love to know the answer to this question as well. I am a very new player, and have myself a McCallum practice chanter that uses hemp. I just bought my son a Dunbar practice chanter and it uses o-rings. I really like the o-ring idea as it seems like an almost lifetime solution. I put a very light layer of silicone grease on the o-rings, and disassembly of the chanter is just so easy. The o-rings always fit the same (the hemp on my PC swells and shrinks with moisture).

All in all, being a new piper I really don't have the knowledge to comment, but the o-rings just seem to make so much more sense than hemp.

Greenpipe 03-06-2019 07:47 PM

Re: Polyester thread instead of hemp = game changer!
 
Me too for waxed dental floss - but on the blowsticks and chanters only. No downside that I've found. It's been on one of my chanters for over 20 years, though I wasn't playing it for a 10 ten year stretch in the middle.


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