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-   -   Low G to B — KAHHHNNNNNN!!!! (http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/showthread.php?t=165204)

brewingjt100 10-15-2017 10:14 AM

Low G to B — KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
are there any exercises anyone could recommend to address this specifically? I tend to roll over the A. I practice this movement constantly and when it starts to sound better, as soon as I add it to any other exercise, the problem rears it's ugly head, again. Is it good practice to concentrate on lifting the ring finger in an exaggerated motion follow by the pinkie? I don't want to start one bad habit to correct another bad habit.
Thank you in advance,
John

el gaitero 10-15-2017 10:39 AM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brewingjt100 (Post 1319437)

..... I tend to roll over the A....

It may sound too simple...but,..just don’t do it.

It’s. LGGGGG,...BBBB; LGGGGG....BBBBB,...a few hundred times slowly ,daily for days...eventually you’ll be there.

There is ‘simply’ no LA ...and no crossing sound when lifting two fingers to the BBBBB.

BaggyMcPipes 10-15-2017 10:47 AM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
I might suggest a... mental-exercise to help with this:

When playing, try to lead with your ring finger. Imagine there's a string connecting your pinky and ring fingers. I'd guess that your pinky probably, "leads," and pulls the ring finger along with it, (because this is natural, it's the way we all naturally do this movement).

Now try, "leading," with the ring finger, and let your ring finger, "pull," your pinky along behind it. Ideally, it'll, "feel," like the ring finger is moving first, but the real result will be that they move precisely together.

That may be useless, but I hope it helps. Best of luck- nice thread title!

zarb 10-15-2017 11:08 AM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
An exercise can be helpful to gain more motor control of a notoriously difficult to control finger. Place the fingers flat on a table and lift the ring finger and set it back down. Then lift the pinkie and ring finger. Each movement should rise to the limit of comfortable movement. Just as in chanter work, this should be moderate in tempo, with clear differences between each movement. This is something you can do at various times in most of daily life. In the end, with many repetitions over time you will gain both control and strength.

CalumII 10-15-2017 11:08 AM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
One of the most frustrating movements out there, for sure.

Firstly, your bottom hand must be in a neutral position. This means that when the finger lifts, it should fall back on the hole without being "aimed". If you have to place it on the hole to get it in the right place, you need to move your hand position to achieve this. In combination with this, make sure you are only moving the knuckle that joins the finger to the hand, and that the hand is not "reaching" forward to cover the lowest hole.

Secondly, it's quite common for the fingers to not "trigger" together and lift at once. You need to learn how to do this and then, once you've learnt to do it, practice it.

To learn how to do it, simply raise the fingers in the "wrong order" - the B then the A. Do it with a deliberate, controlled gap. Once you can do that repeatably with the same rhythm, speed it (the gap) up slowly. At a certain point, the fingers will suddenly start moving together. Listen carefully for that point and memorise that feeling. You've now learned *how* to trigger the fingers to move together. Now you need to repeat that process daily until you can move the fingers together at will without a controlled warm-up.

This technique works with any combination of fingers that won't lift together - E and F are also common culprits.

3D Piper 10-15-2017 03:48 PM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
I call that 'peeling', when you are changing from a lower note to a higher note and a finger doesn't lift with the others (LG to B, E to HG, etc).. The fingers peel up one after the other instead of both at the same time.

Calum has some good note change exercises that would probably help under his 'scary exercises' link.. Plus, as el gaitero has noted, just doing those problem notes repeatedly (slowly and correctly!) would help. I recall at NAAPD when Ed Neigh was playing Flett from Flotta he wasn't as clean as he liked with one part. When he got through playing he said 'wow, I think that was flett from flotta sorta' and then started playing those few problem notes about 10 times.. Afterwards he said "There, now, much better!"

-Matthew

pancelticpiper 10-17-2017 04:31 AM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by BaggyMcPipes (Post 1319440)

When playing (from Low G to B) try to lead with your ring finger.

That's exactly what I've found to help with myself and students.

It's the fundamental teaching concept of getting the student to stop doing something by having them practice the diametric opposite.

The task is to lift the little and ring fingers together.

The problem is that the student is lifting the little finger first.

The solution is to have the student practice lifting the ring finger first.

I had one student who had the most chronic crossing-notes of anyone I'd experienced.

The only way I could fix it was come up with an exercise for every note-change, where he did the note-change in two steps, the first step being

When going to a higher note, initiate the movement with the topmost finger involved in the new note.

It is impossible to create a crossing-note if this principle is followed.

CalumII 10-17-2017 06:04 AM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by pancelticpiper (Post 1319503)
I had one student who had the most chronic crossing-notes of anyone I'd experienced.

The only way I could fix it was come up with an exercise for every note-change, where he did the note-change in two steps, the first step being

When going to a higher note, initiate the movement with the topmost finger involved in the new note.

It is impossible to create a crossing-note if this principle is followed.

I do this as standard - similar to what Bob Worrall does. First lift all the fingers that will finish off the chanter, then place fingers down. If that's not clean, it's a "peeling" (excellent word) problem.

The handy advantage of this approach is that the gracenote fits very neatly into it as the gracenote finger simply lifts and falls with the first and second movements.

It's conceptually difficult to teach so what I do is introduce it in the form of concrete examples, and only once they've been mastered I go back and build up the theory.

LloydB 10-18-2017 09:31 AM

Re: Low G to B KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by brewingjt100 (Post 1319437)
are there any exercises anyone could recommend to address this specifically? I tend to roll over the A. I practice this movement constantly and when it starts to sound better, as soon as I add it to any other exercise, the problem rears it's ugly head, again. Is it good practice to concentrate on lifting the ring finger in an exaggerated motion follow by the pinkie? I don't want to start one bad habit to correct another bad habit.
Thank you in advance,
John

Don't just lift the finger(s), also practice extending them
at the same time -- pointing them slightly (tangentially)
away from the chanter. This brings additional muscles
into play, from the lower back of your hand. Focus on the
'B' finger, of course.

LJ Neville 10-22-2017 10:35 AM

Re: Low G to B — KAHHHNNNNNN!!!!
 
THIS:

<<The only way I could fix it was come up with an exercise for every note-change, where he did the note-change in two steps, the first step being

When going to a higher note, initiate the movement with the topmost finger involved in the new note.

It is impossible to create a crossing-note if this principle is followed.>>

I call this "Lift - Change". Lift the highest finger, make all other changes -
slowly and deliberately with relaxed hands. It must feel ridiculously easy to do. When a gracenote is involved, it's "Lift - Change - Down".

If a student is making a crossing noise, the pendulum, if you will, has swung far to the wrong side with the fingers "peeling" off as mentioned. Swing the pendulum back to the other extreme with "Lift - Change" and the middle (all fingers lifting/going down when appropriate) will be achieved. Yes, you are making a false note by employing this method... but this is not performance, this is practice, in other words, the training the fingers to do what they are supposed to do.


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