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-   -   Tenor-dominant Hendersons? (http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/showthread.php?t=159833)

Michael Kazmierski Dunn 08-05-2015 02:59 PM

Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
Hey guys,I have a question regarding the new Henderson / Hardie line of pipes made today. I hear that they are supposed to represent a Henderson bore, and I have definitely seen a positive improvement in the tone of the pipes, especially recently. However, in some of the videos it is very dificult to hear the bass drone and I know that Hendersons are somewhat bass-dominant in sound. Unfortunately I cannot send URL links but I can refer to these videos in a different way. In one video called "Alastair Dunn demonstrates new Peter Henderson Chanter" or varient thereof, the drones seem way on the tenor side despite using what I think is the prize setup. Also in the video playing new Peter Henderson pipes they too seem slightly tenor dominant. But in a positive way I feel these pipes have improved especially on one of the COP episodes where Alastair is playing at what I think is the Echos of Oban (with Lochinside, cowall Gathering / Millbank Cottage, and the Battle of Waterloo). These pipes in that recording have the best balance I have heard between bass and tenor, and so the pipes in the video of the Rghp01 Acetyl pipes. Does anyone mind explaining to me why the Hardies and Hendersons used to sound somewhat tenor dominant? My first guess would be the recording and how it was produced, but I think the same set of drone reeds were used all along. Also I forgot to mention, but in the Winter Storm 2014 concert video of Alastair, the pipes are again balanced very well. I first thought it had to do with a new change in the design but I may be wrong. Thanks and I am not trying to ask too many questions. MichaelPS. at St. Andrews Highland Games, I got a first place in grade 4 with my 2/4 march. There weren't any other events in which I could compete, but many of the pipers said that I don't belong in grade 4 they recommend I switch to grade 2!

flares2 08-05-2015 03:37 PM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
I searched for the video you referenced and assuming I found the same one, I felt the balance was quite nice between bass, tenor, and chanter. As discussed before on these forums, recordings can be deceiving, especially in regards to balance. The position of the microphone, movement of the piper, size of the room, can all really sway the sound from one recording to the next. Best to hear the pipes in person when applicable.

Congrats on your 1st. Don't be lulled into a false sense of confidence though. A grade 4 to grade 2 jump is ludicrous, simply because at Grade 4 you predominantly have 2/4 march and piobaireachd. It's difficult to predict your jig, strathspey/reel skills if you're not competing with them. Don't be in too much of a hurry to upgrade. You're young, still have plenty of time to move up the ladder.

Rooklidge 08-05-2015 04:54 PM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Kazmierski Dunn (Post 1286607)
...but many of the pipers said that I don't belong in grade 4 they recommend I switch to grade 2!

Don't be fooled by flattery, Michael. They are just trying to get you out if their grade! Stick, settle in, and win consistently...then move up. :thumb:

John McCain 08-05-2015 05:05 PM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Kazmierski Dunn (Post 1286607)
but many of the pipers said that I don't belong in grade 4 they recommend I switch to grade 2!

I get that all the time, but then I realized they were saying "poo"

GordonLawrie 08-06-2015 10:04 AM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
The way in which pipes are recorded (equipment/mic positioning/ambient acoustics/eq....etc...etc. can make a huge difference to how they sound.

You really have to be there to make a good judgement.

oops- just read down the thread. Sorry to be repetitious.

Michael Kazmierski Dunn 08-06-2015 03:15 PM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
Hey guys, thanks for all of your responses. Yes, I do completely understand that recordings have an immense impact on the sound, but I'm afraid, Flares 2, that the video wasn't the correct one. It's the one where he plays the 6/8 march Cameron MacFadyen, rather than a hornpipe. Also, given the comment that people wanted me to go to grade 2, I don't feel ready for it anyway. I may feel ready for grade 3 though. TTYL (as my bestfriend Deborah says all the time),
Michael

Michael Kazmierski Dunn 11-16-2015 04:38 PM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
Hey guys,Understandably I have not posted in months, but I must say. Regarding the tenor dominance of the Hardie/Hendersons, I did a bit of forum-based research and found out that the bore of the bass bottom can have an influence on volume. I learned on one of these pages that the bore is a 1924 Henderson with a Hardie bottom probably 19/64. I do not have a caliper so this was what I have heard. Most bass bottoms for modern Hends are - maybe, just guessing - 11/32 or so. Maybe this reason, of having a 19/64 bottom, could be the reason for the tenor-dominance. However, as I said before I have heard a dramatic, positive improvement in the tone, especially with the bass being a lot more pronounced and projected in a good way. I'm just going to take a wild guess that the bottom bore of bass has been opened slightly, and if this is so, I'd be curious to know its measurements. When I do get my Rghp01 pipes and before I sell my Naills to my girlfriend Deborah (story coming later), I might experiment by putting my Naill bass bottom on the Hardie, 2/3rds of the bass (so Naill bottom, Hardie middle and top). If this changes the drone dominance I can tell you about it, but I probably will not have the Hardies until maybe a year or two from now. Has anybody done this experiment by putting different bottom bores on existing middle/top bores to increase or decrease dominance? Understandably the chances of screaming are taken into account, but I have always been fascinated, after doing this research, if the dominance changes. Reason being, I love that big bold bass-dom. Henderson sound, although I'm afraid my pipes - when I do get them - will be tenor-dom. Of course, reeds have a big effect. Sorry for bothering anybody, and if I was offensive I did not try to do it in the slightest. TTYL (as Deborah says)Michael

Dan Bell 11-17-2015 11:45 AM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
My understanding is that modern Hardies and Hendersons (which are both made by the RG Hardie company) use the same bore. Only the outside profiles are different. I've heard both in person and I would NOT say that they are tenor-dominant.

Michael Kazmierski Dunn 11-17-2015 01:35 PM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
Dear Dan,Unfortunately I wasn't talking about the exterior design; it's just that Hardie design is only one made in Acetal / Poly / Delrin, which I love. It's ok if you don't really know about bores but I was just trying to clarify. Yes they are the same bore, I know that. Michael

pipernz 11-18-2015 05:03 AM

Re: Tenor-dominant Hendersons?
 
Quote:

Originally Posted by Michael Kazmierski Dunn (Post 1292173)
Dear Dan,Unfortunately I wasn't talking about the exterior design; it's just that Hardie design is only one made in Acetal / Poly / Delrin, which I love. It's ok if you don't really know about bores but I was just trying to clarify. Yes they are the same bore, I know that. Michael

Hardie bagpipes are available in ABW also not just plastic.

Henderson (as in modern) in short are modeled off a 1924 set of Henderson with bottom bass section replaced. At least they were when I inquired some years ago. This has been carried through a few makers pipes these days siting tuning issues, double toning, growling etc.

Alastair played a cane bass and ezeedrone tenors for solos and full cane for band when I spoke to him a couple of years ago.

It's one of those multiple answer question really, could be a whole range of things. Likewise, some people say Henderson are tenor dominate and other say they are bass dominant. I personally think you should just satisfy your own ears and get the sound that you want by changing what you need to.

PS Don't believe there is any harm in going up a grade earlier just means you might stay in that grade for a little longer and besides if you keep winning / getting places in a lower grade clearly it's time to go up and give the others a shot.


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