Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > Great Highland Bagpipe > Piobaireachd
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Piobaireachd For all things related to Piobaireachd ...

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-15-2012, 12:55 PM   #31
bob864
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 7,843
bob864
Default Re: New composition recording

Quote:
Originally Posted by Heatherbelle View Post
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Zqm_l...ature=youtu.be


That should be a link to the first video edit of the Ground.
Cool. I love the way it opens on the score.
__________________
bob864 is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 03-16-2012, 01:59 AM   #32
Heatherbelle
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 3,491
Heatherbelle
Default Re: New composition recording

The last Ground is nearly there too. When it comes, listen out for the very last note that's sounded. Against the long final A (Bb), there are wee wanderings in the strings, and the second violin has practically the last word with an Ab, the flattened seventh. The first fiddle then just underlines that softly. I did this partly through an identification with the underdog (!) and most of all though, as a grand celebration of that most excellent of features of the GHB - the flattened seventh. I hope that at the very end, it's the flattened seventh that's prominent. As it's turned out, the fact that the strings were playing in Bb and not A, is a good thing I think - it maybe lends a softer more mellow touch compared with what might have been a more resonant, bright, sound in A.
Heatherbelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-16-2012, 10:54 AM   #33
Heatherbelle
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 3,491
Heatherbelle
Default Re: New composition recording

http://youtu.be/I0PT1bHQiiw
This is a video of the last Ground. Still working on it though as there's a synch prob at 17-19 seconds, where Neil is seen fingering an F and that doesn't match the sound. And Alasdair wants to add more strings in there and maybe other places in the last Ground. But I'm keen for you to hear the flattened seventh right at the end!
Heatherbelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 10:33 AM   #34
Tripp
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Mar 2009
Location: Westminster, Colorado
Posts: 1,169
Tripp
Default Re: New composition recording

Wicked!

This is such a cool project you've put together, Janette!
__________________
Cheers, Tripp

Denver Bagpipe Lessons Skype Bagpipe Lessons
Tripp is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-17-2012, 03:16 PM   #35
Heatherbelle
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 3,491
Heatherbelle
Default Re: New composition recording

A friend asked to hear the piece so I sent the links to the two videos and was waiting for his reply/comments. This is what came back.



'In autumn last year a former colleague died when at sea. He was found drifting face down in the water. His boat was found almost at the place he lived, far away. His dog started howling in the afternoon, before any humans knew.

One week ago, exactly, a present colleague died in a house fire in his own house.

On Thursday a plane crashed into a mountain, and both plane and people were demolished to pieces. I knew none of those aboard, still I think it is terrible.'

I suppose depending on how you hear it, there could be a melancholy air about the piece. Always fascinating what music stirs up for individual people.

Last edited by Heatherbelle; 03-17-2012 at 03:24 PM.
Heatherbelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 03:30 PM   #36
Heatherbelle
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 3,491
Heatherbelle
Default Re: New composition recording

Can't get to sleep for thinking about tuning. So with a 'normal' pipe chanter, a low A sounds more like a Bb. So I write the strings parts in the key of Bb. Neil says he'll bring his Bb chanter, And here's where I think I went wrong. I took that to mean that the Bb chanter would give a Bb that was a truer Bb than the normal pipe chanter, and that all the other notes too, would be closer to the note pitches of other instruments. But I thought that to get that truer Bb, you would still be fingering low A. Just that the Bb that came out would blend better with other instruments than the normal Bb on the usual chanter.
But actually --is this right---- a fingered low A on a Bb chanter, sounds low A at A=440????
In which case, if the piper uses THAT chanter, the string parts should have been written in A major, not Bb.

Then why is THAT chanter called a Bb chanter--should it not be called an A chanter, because A really is A?? (see why I can't sleep!)

Anyway, so we discover this on the day of the recording--or rather I discover this, far away from my Sibelius software, my printer - so no chance to transpose the whole score and print out new parts in the key of A. Furthermore, the first violin has nice double stopping which works a treat in Bb but some of which will be impossible to play in A.

Only thing to do is for piper to use normal pipe chanter (which fortunately Neil had brought with him) so that the low A will sound near Bb and the Bb score and parts will be acceptable (kind of). Another lesson learned.

Next thing--what or who to tune to. Best solution seems to be at the time, for the quartet to tune to piper's Bb (low A). But they're looking for an open string to tune to this Bb. So their choices are C,G,D,A,E - nothing much there that's ideal to tune to the pipe Bb. D is the best bet as it's the major third of Bb major.

So the strings tune their D's to the piper's Bb. They realise this isn't ideal but seems the best option. The result is that they are playing sharper than their normal pitch.

Because of the switch to 'normal' pipe chanter, Neil is now playing a chanter on which he wasn't happy with his piobaireachd High G. I think that's right. So now a dilemma--does he play a non piob high G that he's happier with, or does he play a Piob high G that he knows he's NOT happy with. What would others do? In the event, he did some of each!

My main stumbling block in trying to fathom all this out, is why a Bb chanter is called a Bb chanter, and is that the same thing as an 'orchestral' chanter.

I should of course have had all this thought through BEFORE the event, but then you don't really know in advance what's going to go wrong till it does.
Heatherbelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 04:04 PM   #37
teuchter46
Forum Silver Medal
 
Join Date: Dec 2011
Location: Wales
Posts: 381
teuchter46 is an unknown quantity at this point
Default Re: New composition recording

I believe some "orchestral" chanters have low A at A=440, others have low A=466 (ie concert Bflat). This will be at the bottom end of where a modern chanter wants to sit in pitch I think but the recording shows it worked for you.

Tuning the strings on a third must have been tricky. Did you have any issues with the difference between equal tempered intervals and just intervals? My guess is the string players would have fingered the notes to blend with the drones so giving you a just tempered piece?
teuchter46 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-18-2012, 06:20 PM   #38
Patrick McLaurin
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 4,256
Patrick McLaurin is on a distinguished road
Default

The scale is exactly the same regardless of the chanter, A mixolydian. 440 chanter puts A at 440, orchestral at 466, regular at 470-480 Hz. So I guess an orchestral is really Bb mixolydian. And regular is Bb# mixolydian. All with an extra lower tone for low G.
Patrick McLaurin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 05:05 AM   #39
Heatherbelle
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 3,491
Heatherbelle
Default Re: New composition recording

Quote:
Originally Posted by teuchter46 View Post
I believe some "orchestral" chanters have low A at A=440, others have low A=466 (ie concert Bflat). This will be at the bottom end of where a modern chanter wants to sit in pitch I think but the recording shows it worked for you.

Tuning the strings on a third must have been tricky. Did you have any issues with the difference between equal tempered intervals and just intervals? My guess is the string players would have fingered the notes to blend with the drones so giving you a just tempered piece?
So if buying an 'orchestral' chanter, is it clear when the person buys it whether it's an A=440 one or an A=466 one, or does the person kind of find that out later?

Re the 'equal' and 'just' intervals, yes I think so, but I think as the strings were listening to the pipes on earphones, they were adjusting to the pipe notes, and of course this is more possible with strings--unlike a piano!!
Heatherbelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-19-2012, 05:09 AM   #40
Heatherbelle
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 3,491
Heatherbelle
Default Re: New composition recording

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McLaurin View Post
The scale is exactly the same regardless of the chanter, A mixolydian. 440 chanter puts A at 440, orchestral at 466, regular at 470-480 Hz. So I guess an orchestral is really Bb mixolydian. And regular is Bb# mixolydian. All with an extra lower tone for low G.
Yes I realise that whatever the pitch of A, we're still talking about a Mixolydian scale. So you're saying the 'orchestral' chanter is A=466, Bb mixolydian, and the A=470-80, the regular, is B mixolydian. It's clearly crucial to have all this sorted in advance with this kind of project.
Heatherbelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 09:33 PM.