Which "Clumsy Lover" version? - Page 4

pancelticpiper · 03-21-2012, 04:33 AM

I heard Neil Dickie's own pipe band (Edmonton Pipe Band??) play Clumsy Lover in competition at Santa Rosa shortly after he composed it.

The version I learned, though, is the 4-part version recorded by the 78th Frasers in 1983. It's still my favourite version. I have the cassette tape (remember those things??) here in front of me. (The 3rd part is the Edre part, the 4th part is the syncopated High A part.)

A couple years after that I heard a Scottish Grade 4 or Grade 3 band (can't remember, this was back in the 80s) play a tune they called "Pastiche" which was, in effect, a simplified garbled version of The Clumsy Lover. It was horrid.

Then Clumsy Lover got taken up in the Traditional Irish Music session repertoire, where it became even more garbled. Thing about that repertoire is, everybody learns the session tunes by ear at the session, nobody ever sees sheet music, and oftentimes people aren't aware that a tune is recently composed (often assuming that the tunes are traditional).

So within a couple years of its composition I'm hearing it played in Irish sessions, the order of the parts all switched around, some parts missing, new parts which Neil hadn't written having appeared. When I told them that they were playing it wrong, that it had been written by a Canadian guy only a couple years before, they looked at me like I was crazy. In the Irish session world, the way a tune happens to be played at the session IS the "right" way, end of story.

Patrick McLaurin · 03-21-2012, 05:18 AM

The jig version is on pipetunes.ca too. It isn't in the book iirc.

bob864 · 03-21-2012, 05:22 AM

I think I remember a few years back on Pipeline they had a recording from the Worlds (many years ago) of Mr. Dicke's composition in an early form. It wasn't yet called Clumsy Lover.

Nintch · 03-21-2012, 06:51 AM

"Clumsy Lover" is one of the biggest "bagpipe hits" since Amazing Grace. It has literally gone all over the world - pipe bands, trad groups, punk groups... I have heard more than one Gaita band play it! The number of variations on a given tune are a testament to its strength. Just look at Cabar Feidh!
A pastiche is an imitation, and the tune "Pastiche" is a 2 parted pointed hornpipe imitation of "Clumsy Lover". We played it in the Manchester Pipe Band way back in the early 90's at the end of a medley. I had heard once that Neil Dickie had written it himself, but I don't know if that is true - perhaps somebody could clear that up?

bob864 · 03-21-2012, 09:19 AM

Quoting Neil Dickie

"When you are doing a lampoon or spoof it's okay. The infamous "Pastiche" was NOT a plagiarized Clumsy Lover. Anyone who knows what Pastiche means, will realize that it was Robert M's musical joke. (Turned out not to be a bad tune in its own right anyway

)"

End quote

thread: http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/...ad.php?t=92867

Worth reading the rest of his comments in that thread, since they relate to the issue directly.

Patrick McLaurin · 03-21-2012, 10:33 AM

Now all is made clear. It was intended as a musical joke, a hodge podge (Pastiche) of music.

pipermacbear · 03-21-2012, 01:50 PM

Yup, first time I heard the original was 78ths Live in Ireland.

In my mind nothing else stacks up.

Can call it "Clumsy Lover" if you wish, but I know better.

Heard a band warming up with it Saint Paddy's Parade on Sunday... Didn't like it so I walked away.

Freedom.

pipermacbear · 03-21-2012, 01:53 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by pancelticpiper

Then Clumsy Lover got taken up in the Traditional Irish Music session repertoire, where it became even more garbled. Thing about that repertoire is, everybody learns the session tunes by ear at the session, nobody ever sees sheet music, and oftentimes people aren't aware that a tune is recently composed (often assuming that the tunes are traditional).

Bwahahaha! Too funny. Have to show this to my fiddler friends. Buncha hacks!

Achilles Piper · 03-25-2012, 07:46 PM

Sorry I missed this thread earlier - been away on a holiday. For me there is only one version of Clumsy Lover, and that is by the Headless Piper and Headless Drummer -

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px0G3F7gj8Q

Johno and Andy were obviously having fun!!

Shawn Husk · 03-25-2012, 09:12 PM

We used to play the two parted version in my old band. We also called it "Whatever" has anyone else heard it called that or was that something our P/M just made up......?

Shawn

03-21-2012, 04:33 AM	#31
pancelticpiper Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Sep 2005 Location: WV to the OC Posts: 7,096	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? I heard Neil Dickie's own pipe band (Edmonton Pipe Band??) play Clumsy Lover in competition at Santa Rosa shortly after he composed it. The version I learned, though, is the 4-part version recorded by the 78th Frasers in 1983. It's still my favourite version. I have the cassette tape (remember those things??) here in front of me. (The 3rd part is the Edre part, the 4th part is the syncopated High A part.) A couple years after that I heard a Scottish Grade 4 or Grade 3 band (can't remember, this was back in the 80s) play a tune they called "Pastiche" which was, in effect, a simplified garbled version of The Clumsy Lover. It was horrid. Then Clumsy Lover got taken up in the Traditional Irish Music session repertoire, where it became even more garbled. Thing about that repertoire is, everybody learns the session tunes by ear at the session, nobody ever sees sheet music, and oftentimes people aren't aware that a tune is recently composed (often assuming that the tunes are traditional). So within a couple years of its composition I'm hearing it played in Irish sessions, the order of the parts all switched around, some parts missing, new parts which Neil hadn't written having appeared. When I told them that they were playing it wrong, that it had been written by a Canadian guy only a couple years before, they looked at me like I was crazy. In the Irish session world, the way a tune happens to be played at the session IS the "right" way, end of story. __________________ "The rain falleth upon the just and unjust alike... except in California." Last edited by pancelticpiper; 03-21-2012 at 04:38 AM.

03-21-2012, 05:18 AM	#32
Patrick McLaurin Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,491	The jig version is on pipetunes.ca too. It isn't in the book iirc. __________________ Piping Blog - Homepage - Pekaar's Tune Encyclopedia - Convert BMW to ABC

03-21-2012, 05:22 AM	#33
bob864 Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 7,100	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? I think I remember a few years back on Pipeline they had a recording from the Worlds (many years ago) of Mr. Dicke's composition in an early form. It wasn't yet called Clumsy Lover. __________________

03-21-2012, 06:51 AM	#34
Nintch Forum Regular Join Date: Mar 2007 Location: Connecticut Posts: 147	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? "Clumsy Lover" is one of the biggest "bagpipe hits" since Amazing Grace. It has literally gone all over the world - pipe bands, trad groups, punk groups... I have heard more than one Gaita band play it! The number of variations on a given tune are a testament to its strength. Just look at Cabar Feidh! A pastiche is an imitation, and the tune "Pastiche" is a 2 parted pointed hornpipe imitation of "Clumsy Lover". We played it in the Manchester Pipe Band way back in the early 90's at the end of a medley. I had heard once that Neil Dickie had written it himself, but I don't know if that is true - perhaps somebody could clear that up? __________________ Drones Don't Lie

03-21-2012, 09:19 AM	#35
bob864 Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Jun 2005 Location: South Carolina Posts: 7,100	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? Quoting Neil Dickie "When you are doing a lampoon or spoof it's okay. The infamous "Pastiche" was NOT a plagiarized Clumsy Lover. Anyone who knows what Pastiche means, will realize that it was Robert M's musical joke. (Turned out not to be a bad tune in its own right anyway )" End quote thread: http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/...ad.php?t=92867 Worth reading the rest of his comments in that thread, since they relate to the issue directly. __________________

03-21-2012, 10:33 AM	#36
Patrick McLaurin Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Aug 2006 Location: Lubbock, TX Posts: 3,491	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? Now all is made clear. It was intended as a musical joke, a hodge podge (Pastiche) of music. __________________ Piping Blog - Homepage - Pekaar's Tune Encyclopedia - Convert BMW to ABC

03-21-2012, 01:50 PM	#37
pipermacbear Forum Gold Medal Join Date: Feb 2004 Location: Fun City Canada...Montréal Posts: 690	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? Yup, first time I heard the original was 78ths Live in Ireland. In my mind nothing else stacks up. Can call it "Clumsy Lover" if you wish, but I know better. Heard a band warming up with it Saint Paddy's Parade on Sunday... Didn't like it so I walked away. Freedom. __________________ My Musical Projects: The Thistle Amongst the Lilies...Quebec's First Collection of Pipe Music! Supersonic Tartan Death Machine

03-25-2012, 07:46 PM	#39
Achilles Piper Forum Member Join Date: Mar 2010 Location: Melbourne, Australia Posts: 99	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? Sorry I missed this thread earlier - been away on a holiday. For me there is only one version of Clumsy Lover, and that is by the Headless Piper and Headless Drummer - http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Px0G3F7gj8Q Johno and Andy were obviously having fun!!

03-25-2012, 09:12 PM	#40
Shawn Husk Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Sep 2002 Location: Champion, Ohio Posts: 4,897	Re: Which "Clumsy Lover" version? We used to play the two parted version in my old band. We also called it "Whatever" has anyone else heard it called that or was that something our P/M just made up......? Shawn __________________ Get in the circle! www.huskreeds.com