"Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772

John MacDonald · 05-02-2012, 06:23 PM

This piece is reproduced from The ROYAL NAVAL PIPERS SOCIETY

Marine Pipers in 1772 - ‘To apply to Captain Collier, Nore, for and embark two marines with bagpipes on board Resolution and Adventure and to discharge to headquarters at Chatham two marines to make room for them.’ Admiralty to Navy Board. Letter, dated 9 May 1772. ADM 2/1166. Australian National Library. Quoted in Cook, James. Vol. II. op. cit., p. 928:

‘My Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty having ordered two Marines, who play the Bag pipes, to be brought from Portsmouth by his Majesty’s Ship the Flora to the Nore, in order to be put on board the Resolution and Adventure Sloops to serve as part of their Complements of Marines; I am commanded by their Lordships to signify their direction to you to apply to Captain Collier for the said two Marines, upon your arrival at the Nore, and to discharge to the Head Quarters at Chatham two Marines to make room for them, you will afterwards at a convenient opportunity put one of the said Bagpipers on board the Adventure and take a Marine from that Sloop in exchange for him; I am &c.’ Admiralty Secretary to Captain Cook, Long Reach. Letter, dated 9 May 1772. ADM 2/1166. [Public Record Office, Kew, London].

phinson · 05-02-2012, 08:07 PM

I remember reading an article in Piping Today ( I think) several years back about Royal Marine pipers with at least one of Captain Cook's expeditions in the Pacific.

Paul Hinson

classicbagpipes · 05-03-2012, 04:46 AM

I have a letter many years ago from R.G. Harris, author and military historian re this same topic.
He had mentioned pipers in the RM though more recently in the 1920s & 30s. But in it he told me that they had no "official" status at all in the marines. They just happened to be marines able to play the pipes and were used on manuvers and marches and such when a full band wasn't very practical.
I am sure that these pipers mentioned in the 1770s as these later ones I am refering to were just Scots who played the pipes but were in the Royal Marines.

JSadler · 05-03-2012, 10:15 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by classicbagpipes

I have a letter many years ago from R.G. Harris, author and military historian re this same topic.
He had mentioned pipers in the RM though more recently in the 1920s & 30s. But in it he told me that they had no "official" status at all in the marines. They just happened to be marines able to play the pipes and were used on manuvers and marches and such when a full band wasn't very practical.
I am sure that these pipers mentioned in the 1770s as these later ones I am refering to were just Scots who played the pipes but were in the Royal Marines.

Interesting! I'm really curious and would love to read more about the history. Does anyone have any books or websites to recommend?

K Sanger · 05-06-2012, 07:16 AM

Possibly explains why the opposition followed suit. The following is transcibed from the 'London Packet or new Lloyds Evening Post' of the 25 May 1795. I have always entertained the image of a piper with a Black Pipe Banner with white skull and cross bones on it.

Captain M'Allister of the Juno, arrived in the Clyde from Jamaica, on the 24th March last, off Cape St Antonio, spoke a Spanish ship which had on board a number of English and Spanish prisoners, among whom was Captian Campbell of the Brothers of Liverpool; they consisted of the crews of several English vessels and the said Spanish ship, all captured by a French privateer which sent all the vessels for Charlestown. The Frenchman gave the Spanish ship to the prisoners, and when Captian M'Allister spoke them, they were proceeding for the Havannah. The Captain of the privateer told the prisoners that he was sorry to part with them so soon, but as his crew were mostly gone in prizes, he was oblidged to proceed to port; he said, if he had had time to stay with them a few days longer, he would teach them the song and a dance called Carmagnole. It is worthy of remark that the prisoners told Captain M'Allister there was a Highland piper on board the privateer.

Keith

aboode · 05-06-2012, 01:29 PM

More recently there were of course Pipes & Drums in 42 Commando, Royal Marines from about 1943 to about 1971. Some names of the Pipe Majors:
- Stevenson, around 1945
- Flook (Fluke?) 1960-1962
- Bassett, around 1966
Has anyone additional information about the Pipe Majors?
Aad

Klondike Waldo · 05-06-2012, 04:21 PM

As I understand it, The Marines became designated "Royal Marines" only after Trafalgar. Is that correct?

David · 05-08-2012, 09:41 PM

Cook's father was a Scot, so maybe he just liked bagpipes.

paul roberts · 05-18-2012, 07:59 AM

I wrote on article on Cook's pipers for Chanter Summer 2009 - you may be able to get a copy from the Bagpipe Society website.

I don't have time to summarize it properly here, but very quickly....

Cook was ordered to take the two pipers by the Admiralty, for reasons discussed in the article. They went to some effort to find two pipers from the Marine Corps.

Ships music was mandatory, and the musician/s could either be supplied by the Captain at his own expense or provided by the Marine Corps. Marine musicians were expected to double up on both a stringed instrument (usually fiddle) and a woodwind (usually fife).

The two pipers were probably Archibald McVicar, who was probably a Highlander, and Thomas MacDonald, who was possibly a Borderer (Note the "probablys" and "possiblys": read the article for further enlightenment!)

05-02-2012, 06:23 PM	#1
John MacDonald Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: HAMPSHIRE - ENGLAND-UK Posts: 1,756	"Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 This piece is reproduced from The ROYAL NAVAL PIPERS SOCIETY Marine Pipers in 1772 - ‘To apply to Captain Collier, Nore, for and embark two marines with bagpipes on board Resolution and Adventure and to discharge to headquarters at Chatham two marines to make room for them.’ Admiralty to Navy Board. Letter, dated 9 May 1772. ADM 2/1166. Australian National Library. Quoted in Cook, James. Vol. II. op. cit., p. 928: ‘My Lords Commissioners of the Admiralty having ordered two Marines, who play the Bag pipes, to be brought from Portsmouth by his Majesty’s Ship the Flora to the Nore, in order to be put on board the Resolution and Adventure Sloops to serve as part of their Complements of Marines; I am commanded by their Lordships to signify their direction to you to apply to Captain Collier for the said two Marines, upon your arrival at the Nore, and to discharge to the Head Quarters at Chatham two Marines to make room for them, you will afterwards at a convenient opportunity put one of the said Bagpipers on board the Adventure and take a Marine from that Sloop in exchange for him; I am &c.’ Admiralty Secretary to Captain Cook, Long Reach. Letter, dated 9 May 1772. ADM 2/1166. [Public Record Office, Kew, London]. __________________ J.A.B.MACDONALD

05-02-2012, 08:07 PM	#2
phinson Forum Clasp Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Oakland, Illinois Posts: 907	Re: "Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 I remember reading an article in Piping Today ( I think) several years back about Royal Marine pipers with at least one of Captain Cook's expeditions in the Pacific. Paul Hinson

05-03-2012, 04:46 AM	#3
classicbagpipes Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Aug 2004 Location: Atlanta, Ga Posts: 2,002	Re: "Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 I have a letter many years ago from R.G. Harris, author and military historian re this same topic. He had mentioned pipers in the RM though more recently in the 1920s & 30s. But in it he told me that they had no "official" status at all in the marines. They just happened to be marines able to play the pipes and were used on manuvers and marches and such when a full band wasn't very practical. I am sure that these pipers mentioned in the 1770s as these later ones I am refering to were just Scots who played the pipes but were in the Royal Marines. __________________ Practice Hard, win easy! *Perfection is not attainable, but if we chase perfection we can catch excellence.* Vince Lombardi

05-06-2012, 07:16 AM	#5
K Sanger Forum Regular Join Date: Jan 2010 Location: Scotland Posts: 167	Re: "Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 Possibly explains why the opposition followed suit. The following is transcibed from the 'London Packet or new Lloyds Evening Post' of the 25 May 1795. I have always entertained the image of a piper with a Black Pipe Banner with white skull and cross bones on it. Captain M'Allister of the Juno, arrived in the Clyde from Jamaica, on the 24th March last, off Cape St Antonio, spoke a Spanish ship which had on board a number of English and Spanish prisoners, among whom was Captian Campbell of the Brothers of Liverpool; they consisted of the crews of several English vessels and the said Spanish ship, all captured by a French privateer which sent all the vessels for Charlestown. The Frenchman gave the Spanish ship to the prisoners, and when Captian M'Allister spoke them, they were proceeding for the Havannah. The Captain of the privateer told the prisoners that he was sorry to part with them so soon, but as his crew were mostly gone in prizes, he was oblidged to proceed to port; he said, if he had had time to stay with them a few days longer, he would teach them the song and a dance called Carmagnole. It is worthy of remark that the prisoners told Captain M'Allister there was a Highland piper on board the privateer. Keith

05-06-2012, 01:29 PM	#6
aboode Forum Regular Join Date: Sep 2010 Location: Livingston, Scotland Posts: 166	Re: "Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 More recently there were of course Pipes & Drums in 42 Commando, Royal Marines from about 1943 to about 1971. Some names of the Pipe Majors: - Stevenson, around 1945 - Flook (Fluke?) 1960-1962 - Bassett, around 1966 Has anyone additional information about the Pipe Majors? Aad

05-06-2012, 04:21 PM	#7
Klondike Waldo Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Jun 2002 Location: Braintree MA USA Posts: 4,946	Re: "Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 As I understand it, The Marines became designated "Royal Marines" only after Trafalgar. Is that correct? __________________ Slainte Leibh/ Slan Leat, Bob Cameron

05-08-2012, 09:41 PM	#8
David Holy smoking keyboard! Join Date: Dec 2001 Location: Haifa, ISRAEL Posts: 3,369	Re: "Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 Cook's father was a Scot, so maybe he just liked bagpipes. __________________ *AKHLA SABABA a jig BOTTOM-HAND BREAKDOWN a G-D-E exercise that became a jig ROBERT GORDON McNEIL GREEN a moderate tempo 6/8 march

05-18-2012, 07:59 AM	#9
paul roberts Forum Regular Join Date: Jul 2008 Posts: 135	Re: "Royal" Marine Pipers in 1772 I wrote on article on Cook's pipers for Chanter Summer 2009 - you may be able to get a copy from the Bagpipe Society website. I don't have time to summarize it properly here, but very quickly.... Cook was ordered to take the two pipers by the Admiralty, for reasons discussed in the article. They went to some effort to find two pipers from the Marine Corps. Ships music was mandatory, and the musician/s could either be supplied by the Captain at his own expense or provided by the Marine Corps. Marine musicians were expected to double up on both a stringed instrument (usually fiddle) and a woodwind (usually fife). The two pipers were probably Archibald McVicar, who was probably a Highlander, and Thomas MacDonald, who was possibly a Borderer (Note the "probablys" and "possiblys": read the article for further enlightenment!)