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Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

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Old 04-14-2019, 05:04 AM   #11
CalumII
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

Yes, the tune first appears in the GHB repertoire in Uilleam Ross.


Many pipe tunes of the times were lifted wholesale from other sources, so it wouldn't surprise me at all that the original tune predates both. It's easy to imagine it as a music hall song.
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Old 04-15-2019, 04:52 AM   #12
thevoidboy
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

And vice versa. There is research into how many highland airs made it into the Classical music repertoire.


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Old 04-19-2019, 10:51 AM   #13
Pip01
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

Quote:
Originally Posted by dorothy


"Steamboat," nor any tune that sounds like it, is not in any score of Tchaikovsky's "Nutcracker" ballet that I have ever played, and I have

played it many times.






Greetings, classicbagpipes, Dorothy, and to All,

I find myself in th' boat with Dorothy on this one.

Listening many times... and try though I might...
...Blast!!... if I can get-find-discover... "Steamboat"
steaming along with any hint of The "Nutcracker"
surrounding... or even vaguely... attached to it. (??)

Now.. that being said... please allow to point out...
and in... "Full Disclosure" :)... that I am the same
fellow that posted here some time ago... that I had
played "The Ballad of Dives & Lazarus" (a Child
Ballad and very old pipe tune) ... for many... many
years... until one day... and with just a wee little bit
o' change in timing and emphasis... Behold!!... "The
Star of the County Down." :)

Now and perhaps... this conundrum of "Nutcracker"
and "Steamboat"... may just be attributable... to my
stone ear... and wooden fingers... :)

And so... let us see... how this plays out... :)

Regards to All,

Pip01








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Last edited by Pip01; 04-19-2019 at 10:53 AM.
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Old 04-19-2019, 12:44 PM   #14
CelticHiker
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

Pip01, the section where it is heard (at least by those of us that hear it ) is in Act 1, Scene 1, No. 3, "Children's Gallop and Entry of the Parents". To save yourself the effort, although I believe its also linked above, here is a link to a Youtube recording right at the beginning of the part in question: https://youtu.be/rAVLJX52hI8?t=83

If you happen to have the score, look in the Children's Gallop and Entry of the the Parents where it changes from I believe 2/4 into 6/8 and look at the Violin 1 part.
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Old 04-20-2019, 09:16 PM   #15
Kriktsemaj
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

The source for the tune in the Nutcracker (and "Steamboat") is the French nursery rhyme "Bon Voyage, Monsieur Dumollet":


https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25wDFTPNAU


It predates them both. I researched this a few years ago after I saw the Nutcracker dance performed at a wedding and realized it was the same melody as the pipe tune.

Last edited by Kriktsemaj; 04-20-2019 at 09:19 PM.
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Old 04-21-2019, 09:36 AM   #16
Pip01
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kriktsemaj


The source for the tune in the Nutcracker (and "Steamboat") is the French nursery rhyme "Bon Voyage, Monsieur Dumollet":

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R25wDFTPNAU

It predates them both. I researched this a few years ago after I saw the Nutcracker dance performed at a wedding and realized it was the same melody as the pipe tune.



Greetings, Kirktsemaj, and to All,

Thank you!!... and very much... for the vid!! :)

"Monsieur Demmolet"... is exactly right... and
even to my stone ear. :)

Which brings to the fore... my many reasons
for my great liking... to play these quite lovely
"children's songs"... and... for... the children... :)

And for our other "Who Shot John?"... and who
heard what where and how... I think that I shall
simply mark all of that up to being quite similar
to the recent internet waltz-about... regarding
the various multiple subjective interpretations
about the photo of a dress (color, stripes, etc.).

Neurology is not... sometimes... un-like the study
of telepathy... but... we do... have to have some
number of substantive guideposts... to help us to
well-grounded conclusions... and many are but
ill equipped... yea!!... only half-horsed... to pursue
distantly galloping and very subjective impressions.
(The same is quite obviously... more than applicable...
to my stone ear... and wooden fingers. :)

And for this particular song/tune? I am minded of an
old verse.

"... and a little child shall lead them..." :)

Regards... and Happy Piping... and Listening... to All,

Pip01







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Last edited by Pip01; 04-21-2019 at 09:53 AM.
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Old 04-23-2019, 11:33 AM   #17
classicbagpipes
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

As the one who opened this question so long ago. You have found the answer and I very much thank you for the information.

Now just as the composer of Green Hills, who heard the tune during the Crimean War. Could this tune have been transposed by some PM who heard children sing it while playing say in France, during either of the World Wars?

Just a thought.
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Old 04-23-2019, 02:39 PM   #18
Klondike Waldo
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

FWIW. I played in the orchestra for as Boston Ballet production of Nutcracker back when I was a beginning piper but an experienced professinal tubist. I was quite surprised to hear "the Steam Boat" but have since heard it in other performances of the ballet. It's in the children's Galop as noted above.

FWIW , it was a trip being the tubist in the orchestra, as i was seated in the pit with my back right up against the stage, so could not see the dancers at all, but could hear their feet scuffling along and the occasional son grunt when they landed after a leap or lift.
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Old 04-23-2019, 03:00 PM   #19
CalumII
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicbagpipes View Post
Could this tune have been transposed by some PM who heard children sing it while playing say in France, during either of the World Wars?

It was first published in 1871 in Uilleam Ross, so it predates that quite safely.



The most likely mode of transmission, I would guess, is that it was used as a tune in the music hall, from where a great many 19th century bagpipe tunes were pinched as anything successful quickly became common currency.
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Old 04-23-2019, 04:03 PM   #20
Pip01
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Default Re: 6/8 Steamboat from the Nutcracker Ballet

Quote:
Originally Posted by classicbagpipes


As the one who opened this question so long ago. You have found the answer and I very much thank you for the information.

Now just as the composer of Green Hills, who heard the tune during the Crimean War.



Could this tune have been transposed by some PM who heard children sing it while playing say in France, during either of the World Wars?

Just a thought.




Greetings, classicbagpipes... and to All,


Under the sole heading of...

"I tell the tale that I heard told"... :)


The way of it... that I heard... now this some
Long Time Past... was that a contingent of
Italian prisoners of war were being marched
to some different location... and they were
singing a song to this tune... and as they
passed near a unit of Scottish soldiers...
their singing... and the tune of it... was then
overheard by the lads... and someone there
turned it... into a pipe tune.... :)

Now as to the... which Scots unit... or where
this took place... or when... or who did that
transition into a pipe tune? Ain't got the foggiest... :)

Perhaps others here... can run those aspects...
to ground... :)

Regards to All,

Pip01


(And ain't we got a multi-faceted kettle of fish
with our playing? ...Ain't we just!! :)



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Last edited by Pip01; 04-23-2019 at 04:09 PM.
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