Constructive Criticism for Pipers

[Green Piper]

Anyway.....

I posted a recording and got excellent feedback!

Thank-you guys. I have not yet fully managed to read them thoroughly, but I will. It is also reassuring that aspects of my playing this tune are critiqued in a similar manner by the group as well as my instructor.

Thank-you to Callum for doing this.

Charlie

[John Haack]

I think it's a fantastic idea.

Although, you couldn't pay me enough to moderate it.
The hopes are that it self moderates. Which does and can happen. Especially with people's real FB profiles attached to their posts. I've seen it in related groups.

But, the reason I think it's a fantastic idea is to prove that we're not, by default, jerks who tear people down.

That's not at all how we operate in the real world of piping. Sure, there's sniping, griping, and eyerolling in private. But, sooooo many of us have received help/feedback/etc. from top of the line players, players who are just better than us, and on occasions....people who aren't necessarily great players, but still have a keen insight.

I've said it a zillion times on this board. Yes...I will roll my eyes at the guy or gal or who wants to put on the kilt, honk away, and receive money or accolades for doing so.

However, I will applaud and enjoy listening to anyone who's primary motivation is making a real effort at working on their art....no matter how good they are, or will be. I'm satisfied by listening to someone like that who may just be getting on their pipes for the first time. Cause I know the next time I get to hear them, they'll be even better. And if I can legitimately help...I'll do so in a positive way.

Because someone did that for me. And many still do.

The other people...honking away. Grumble on. Just, make sure that's what they're doing. Don't assume that the random video you saw/heard is a representation of their true effort. I don't think that's the kind of folks who will show up in this group.

Still wouldn't wanna be responsible for moderating, though. Ugh. Potential nightmare.

[CalumII]

Haha, I know what you mean. So far it has been really friendly, and I think I've made it clear in the rules that it's a no-tolerance zone for rudeness or negative feedback that isn't backed by reasoning. I'll gladly throw people out if need be but so far, so good

[Green Piper]

I think it’s a great resource, and friendly. I posted my second tune a couple of days’ ago and am looking forward to comments/suggestions.

I wholeheartedly encourage its use.

Charlie

[Andrew Lenz]

Folks are more than welcome to post videos for critique in the videos forum here. If someone is nasty, we moderators can do a slap down!

Honestly, I think it's one of the most underutilized features of the internet (video feedback), but people are understandably afraid of being attacked.


Andrew

[Pip01]

Greetings, CallumII, and to All,

I think it a marvelous undertaking (and a heavy
with work undertaking... it shall assuredly be :) ...
and... I think that it shall prove a grand... and
on-going resource... to all who participate. :)

If... if... I may proffer a thought... not a suggestion...
only a thought...

As we poor sods... poor Mortals that we be... are
and always... so influenced by whatever language
we wind up... natively speaking... Andrew's use of
the above word... "critique"... rather than "Criticism"...
may well serve to help alleviate... what ever misgivings
may arise from that oft times mis-perceived... and hence...
mis-judged word... "criticism"... which most times usually
arrives to the hearer... or reader... with the cultural and quite
un-intended baggage... of impending... and usually harsh...
judgement.

In my small section of the military... we always had critiques...
both before... and after... almost everything... we ever did!!...
and they were all... seldom... if ever... taken amiss...

Those "critiques" were taken for what they were... tools...
for learning... and improvement... :)... and nothing else... :)

Perhaps this word could help ameliorate the un-conscious
cultural bias that "criticism"... unfortunately... carries with it.
(We are so bound... by what we learn to say.)

As I made mention above... just a thought...

Yours is a grand idea... and wishing you... and all who partake...

All the Best!! :)

Pip01

[John Dally]

Originally Posted by EquusRacer

On a related topic, specifically to judging/critiquing piping, drumming, dancing, and so forth, some common complaints I hear from competitors is that the judge was totally negative (even brutal), focused on like/not like, gave no helpful ways to improve, had no comments about anything done decently, and/or says virtually nothing (e.g., I've seen some comment sheets with nothing but check marks! No comments).

This is in the DNA of piping competitions. You start with a maximum score and points are taken away as you play, often for ambiguous or subjective reasons. You are penalized for faults. Most sports are based on an accumulation of points, rather than subtraction. Piping competitions have a negative framing.

It's good to remember that competitions also exist to bestow prestige on the judges and organizers. Many times they actually deserve it. Their comments are often written or not written with their own prestige in mind, and have little to do with you.

I'm my own worst critic. I can cut myself down faster than anyone. I wouldn't let myself join a group like that, for my own sake. But I can see its usefulness, especially if you just want to put the music out there to a knowledgable audience.

[EquusRacer]

Originally Posted by John Dally

This is in the DNA of piping competitions. You start with a maximum score and points are taken away as you play, often for ambiguous or subjective reasons. You are penalized for faults. Most sports are based on an accumulation of points, rather than subtraction. Piping competitions have a negative framing.

It's good to remember that competitions also exist to bestow prestige on the judges and organizers. Many times they actually deserve it. Their comments are often written or not written with their own prestige in mind, and have little to do with you.

I'm my own worst critic. I can cut myself down faster than anyone. I wouldn't let myself join a group like that, for my own sake. But I can see its usefulness, especially if you just want to put the music out there to a knowledgable audience.

While there's truth in that, and in some defense of a number of judges (regardless of what I posted earlier about common complaints), most I've known are great with comments; and helpful ones. When I look through students' comment sheets (or out band's), I often say, "Oh, yes, indeed. Right on that. Yeah, correct on that, too", so on and on. I think many remember when they were young and/or early on in competition, and the fears and other emotions they experienced, and the encouraging words they sought. Not all; but, fortunately, most.

[ralph]

Hello,

I had joined this Facebook group out of curiosity, read the criticism and promptly decided to leave the group for my own piece of mind. I have no problem playing for people and in fact if people enjoy my playing it brings me great joy. However, I feel that I personally play for my own enjoyment, that sort of criticism I read on that group I would find hardly helpful. I learned a long time ago, only take criticism from someone you are paying like an instructor or a judge for my own piece of mind. Just my two cents. Ralph Drew

[EquusRacer]

Hey, Ralph. Given the topic of this thread, and since I've not experienced the Facebook site myself, what was your issue with it and/or the criticism you received? Or was it criticism of others? And, by the way, everyone does enjoy your playing; and I'm glad it gives you great joy. (For those who don't know Ralph, he has played a variety of pipes at the Oregon Pipers Society for entertainment, as well as competed often).