Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > History, Tradition, Heritage
Register Blogs FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

History, Tradition, Heritage As related to the subjects of piping, drumming and pipe bands.

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 08-23-2017, 12:18 PM   #41
Tjones79
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Dec 2012
Location: Pacific Northwest
Posts: 70
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

In Graham Robb’s book, which I mentioned earlier, he comes to the conclusion that we in the West share the same prejudice as the Romans in thinking the Celts as a race with a certain DNA. He feels that it was a Culture and not an specific ethnical group, and that is why it spread so quickly and so far. The Irish for example weren’t invade during this period, so the question becomes when did they become “Celtic”. Much of europe shared this culture, until the Romans conquest.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tQVoEvmriGg&t=1211s 11:40 mins in.

His book “Ancient Paths” in europe or “The discovery of Middle Earth” in the USA, is a new and different view of the ancient world. If you are interested in your “Celticness” then it’s a must read.
Tjones79 is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 08-24-2017, 06:44 AM   #42
Texas Gael
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 1,294
Default Re: Celtic ancestry.

Quote:
Originally Posted by pancelticpiper View Post
I read what showed up on my screen and it had nothing to do with DNA.

It did have as a starting-point the self-fulfilling assumption that there's such a thing as "Celtic feet".

We have to keep in mind that ancient Green and Roman writers used the terms "Germanic" and "Celtic" loosely, in many cases not corresponding to our notions.

For example, the words "deutsche" and "tuatha" appear to be cognates according to one book on Celtic languages I have.
I remember coming across a 1938 Hitler Youth handbook in the undergraduate library when I was in college. Was amused to find that the Celtic peoples are "honorary Aryans".

cheers -

Wes
Texas Gael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08-24-2017, 04:56 PM   #43
Douglas Gordon
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Feb 2013
Location: U.S.
Posts: 57
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

My Family always said; Scots/ Irish, Pennsylvania Dutch- Fathers side.
Mothers side; Ukrainian.
Family DNA results= 33% Western Europe, 67% Eastern Europe.
Of the 33%, 3% British Isle.
Yet they say I, and some gentleman in Ireland, are (within Genetic Distance of 7 ) related to a common ancestor
in Ireland, (within the last 150 years).
I'm totally dazed and confused.

Douglas Gordon
Douglas Gordon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 05:35 AM   #44
gisahag
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2008
Location: N/A
Posts: 253
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

I'm a bit sceptical about whether these DNA test firms are explaining their results very well. Really this stuff is all a bit nuanced and based on statistical probablities, gene distributions amongst non-static populations that have migrated and mixed over the centuries, as well as other forms of genetic drift.

"33% Western Europe, 67% Eastern Europe. Of the 33%, 3% British Isle."
Are you sure that's what the results say? I'd have thought they might be more like "67 % of markers tested match to the alleles most commonly found in eastern European populations, 33% of markers tested match to the alleles most commonly found in western European populations, of which 3% match to those variants most commonly found in the British Isles". But the markers most commonly found in eastern Europe are also found in western Europe (and elsewhere) just at a lower frequency.
The problem with the British Isles in particular is that even before the recent immigration from the former empire and eastern Europe we were the bastard offspring of half the tribes of western Europe. Plus, the mix of those tribes varies greatly from one part of the British Isles to another. So there is no single set of alleles common to the British Isles.

"Yet they say I, and some gentleman in Ireland, are (within Genetic Distance of 7 ) related to a common ancestor
in Ireland, (within the last 150 years)."
I'm not sure a genetic distance of seven is a low score. 0 = identical, and as the number increases so does the amount of difference. Even if it were a low score, all that would mean is that someone from eastern Europe migrated to Ireland sometime in the last 150 years.

I can see why people are interested in this stuff. But it seems the testing firms present the results in a way that is open to misinterpretation. It can't really tell you the exact 'nationality' genetic mix of your ancestry.
gisahag is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 07:38 AM   #45
David
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Haifa, ISRAEL
Posts: 4,286
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by gisahag View Post
I'm a bit sceptical about whether these DNA test firms are explaining their results very well.
Spot on. In fact, most people seem to misunderstand DNA, identity, ethnicity, nationality, etc. Especially on all those YT videos.
"Oh my gosh I'm 6% Italian I've always loved Italian food!"

"Whaaa? 2% Ashkenazi--oi do I have to have a you-know-what done?"

"Where's my Indian DNA? My great great grandmother is full-blooded Cherokee."
People are really only getting a small part of their potential genetics, and they share it with tens of thousands.

Modern sentimentality and nationalism has created a formidable barrier to the truth about identity and race and ethnicity.

Searching for the mythical Keltic warrior chief in the lineage, while ignoring the dung-haulers and teeth-pullers and day-labourers that dominate most of our deep pasts, of whatever apparent background.

Many are unaware how skin colour and physical characteristics are fairly superficial. Skin colour and race are not really absolute.

Much of what is in these DNA test results will be sharply emended over time. Even if one really does love Italian food!

Last edited by David; 09-13-2017 at 07:41 AM.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 07:54 AM   #46
Texas Gael
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2003
Location: Liberty Hill, Texas
Posts: 1,294
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

To really get a good DNA picture, you need to have your Y-DNA (paternal) and mtDNA (maternal) tested, and there are a number of DNA testing services who do this. There have been a number of stories in the news lately about folks who thought that because their forefathers immigrated from a certain country, then they were of that "ethnicity". Turned out their forefathers were descended from earlier immigrants not related to any of the ethnicities of their supposed "ancestral homeland".

I highly recommend Jean Manco's Ancestral Journeys website:

http://www.ancestraljourneys.org/index.shtml

In addition to his book Ancestral Journeys, which is the story of Europeans, he also has a book on the Celts Blood of the Celts.

Cheers -

Wes
Texas Gael is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 12:56 PM   #47
Glenurquhart
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Aix-en-Provence, France
Posts: 2,116
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Piperchase View Post
My ancestry is English and Welsh on my mother's side and English and Irish on my father's side. On both sides there is a sprinkling of Scottish.

What does other folks here have?
Genuine Scottish is not necessarily purely "celtic", a fairy large percentage of Scotland was colonized by the Vikings, and names like Dingwall are nor gaelic but Norse.
__________________
Glenurquhart
Glenurquhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 12:58 PM   #48
Glenurquhart
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Oct 2004
Location: Aix-en-Provence, France
Posts: 2,116
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Spot on. In fact, most people seem to misunderstand DNA, identity, ethnicity, nationality, etc. Especially on all those YT videos.
"Oh my gosh I'm 6% Italian I've always loved Italian food!"

"Whaaa? 2% Ashkenazi--oi do I have to have a you-know-what done?"

"Where's my Indian DNA? My great great grandmother is full-blooded Cherokee."
People are really only getting a small part of their potential genetics, and they share it with tens of thousands.

Modern sentimentality and nationalism has created a formidable barrier to the truth about identity and race and ethnicity.

Searching for the mythical Keltic warrior chief in the lineage, while ignoring the dung-haulers and teeth-pullers and day-labourers that dominate most of our deep pasts, of whatever apparent background.

Many are unaware how skin colour and physical characteristics are fairly superficial. Skin colour and race are not really absolute.

Much of what is in these DNA test results will be sharply emended over time. Even if one really does love Italian food!
I prefer the idea of a world-wide "bagpipe DNA" which we all share!
__________________
Glenurquhart
Glenurquhart is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2017, 03:09 PM   #49
Chris C.
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2003
Location: Seattle, Washington
Posts: 211
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

I used to care about ancestry, but the older I get the more I realise I'm just American.

I've never been to the British Isles, Scotland, or Ireland, or Germany, where my ancestors apparently originated -- and I will never be able to go there. It may as well be Mars.
Chris C. is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2017, 05:13 AM   #50
David
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Haifa, ISRAEL
Posts: 4,286
Default Re: Celtic ancestry

Quote:
Originally Posted by Glenurquhart View Post
Genuine Scottish is not necessarily purely "celtic", a fairy large percentage of Scotland was colonized by the Vikings, and names like Dingwall are nor gaelic but Norse.
True enough. Pre-contemporary Scotland is, at the least, Gaelic, northern Germanic (Scandinavian), southern Germanic (Angles, Saxons, etc.), Brithonic (Welsh, etc.). Is that unusual? Not in the least. Europe is a not overly expansive peninsula of Asia, and we know that many European cultures have folk stories of eastern origins.

How many variations of Gaul, Galicia, Galatia etc. are there? Lots. Spain, France, Portugal, Poland, Turkey. Not that a place-name indicates any connection of the current people to the earlier settlers. I have people called Galitzianers in my family, who have tested genetically as Levantine.

Like trying to build a family tree with a piece of bark, a twig, and a handful of dry leaves. But fun I guess.
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:26 PM.