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Old 09-13-2017, 01:32 PM   #11
el gaitero
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

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Originally Posted by Pppiper View Post

. Does Cameron vs. Macpherson variants relate to the items to which I'm asking?
I'm thinking quite possibly so...the two styles are arguably distinct. Good luck.

Remember ...crawl, walk, run. All in good time.
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:35 PM   #12
CelticHiker
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

In listening to all of those examples, although there are differences in how tight (or crisp) the various players play them, I don't think any of them are as tight as they would be in light music. The Piobarieachd Society recording is probably the most open and the Pincet video the tightest, but they all have the same basic shape of the movement, and its pretty open compared to a typical light music, "cracking" birl. Note:
After I posted this, I was reading the PS webpage for the tune and saw the following under the Judges Notes 2012: The birl is likely to be heard either in the conventional way or ‘spread’ or with straight-finger taps to low G. So there is some additional guidance.

And I also don't hear them speeding up as the variations progress, the length of the theme notes change and make the variations speed up slightly, but the actual low G movements are basically the same in the ground and first two variations, at least to my ears (which may be totally messed up?).

Having never gone over this particular tune with an instructor, I don't have any additional advice to offer beyond seeking out the best instruction you can and going from there.

Last edited by CelticHiker; 09-13-2017 at 01:41 PM. Reason: spelling and adding the note
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Old 09-13-2017, 01:51 PM   #13
Pppiper
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

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Originally Posted by CelticHiker View Post

Having never gone over this particular tune with an instructor, I don't have any additional advice to offer beyond seeking out the best instruction you can and going from there.

Thanks for listening. Appreciated.


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Old 09-14-2017, 08:58 AM   #14
phinson
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

There are two piobaireachd of which I know..."The MacGregors' Salute" and "Prince Charles' Lament"...in which bigger, more open "finger tap" birls can be used.

Look at the settings in Angus MacKay's book. In the former tune, if you sing the Gaelic title in each of the first two phrases, "Failte" aligns with the C (or B in phrase 2), "Na"n" aligns with the low A, and "Griogairaich" aligns with the triplet/open birl.

Paul Hinson
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Old 09-14-2017, 09:00 AM   #15
Pppiper
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

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There are two piobaireachd of which I know..."The MacGregors' Salute" and "Prince Charles' Lament"...in which bigger, more open "finger tap" birls can be used.

Look at the settings in Angus MacKay's book. In the former tune, if you sing the Gaelic title in each of the first two phrases, "Failte" aligns with the C (or B in phrase 2), "Na"n" aligns with the low A, and "Griogairaich" aligns with the triplet/open birl.

Paul Hinson
I see ... so basically, it's more of a tune-specific style, rather than a more general approach to piobaireachd tunes?

Thanks for the input and help.

Cheers,
~Nate
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Old 09-14-2017, 10:15 AM   #16
phinson
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

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Originally Posted by Pppiper View Post
I see ... so basically, it's more of a tune-specific style, rather than a more general approach to piobaireachd tunes?
Thanks for the input and help.
Cheers, ~Nate
Yes, I think so. Paul
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:50 PM   #17
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

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I see ... so basically, it's more of a tune-specific style, rather than a more general approach to piobaireachd tunes?
One thing to keep in mind, piobaireachd, like light music, has many different types of tunes under its broad heading. You wouldn't try to phrase a jig like a 2/4 march I'm guessing, nor would you probably play a certain embellishment in a slow air in the exact same way you would in a hornpipe, and you shouldn't expect to do the same thing in each piobaireachd either. Playing an aggressive "battle" tune in the same manner as a sad lament really doesn't convey the right feeling, and while it might be presented musically and be enjoyable to listen to by the general public, it won't sit well with someone who has studied the music and is expecting a certain feel to the tune (or at least something somewhat close).
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Old 09-14-2017, 12:55 PM   #18
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

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One thing to keep in mind, piobaireachd, like light music, has many different types of tunes under its broad heading
Right on ... I've seen that there's lots of various settings, styles, types .. etc. I'm reading a lot, and I'm learning a lot. But from time to time, there are strange "little things" which hardly seem to have any degree of reasonable explanation, and such ambiguity makes it difficult for inquiring minds to learn.

That's precisely why I'm reaching out; gaining input that guides me toward things that aren't intuitively obvious is sure to be a welcome help in exploring and learning about this genre.

What's more, I'm very much an ear-learner first. I read music, but with something like piobaireachd, it's hard to get a real feel for expression and whatnot from the page (if not impossible, for me). Consequently, I scrutinize what I hear quite heavily, so when I find discrepancies, it's hard to recognize what's style vs. convention, vs. error. And of course, some will call it one thing, while others will gruffly call it another.

And I get that that's what an instructor is for, but there's only so much time for questions and discussion during lesson time. In my view, this forum is invaluable for people seeking clarity and additional perspectives.

Thanks for weighing in.

Last edited by Pppiper; 09-14-2017 at 01:01 PM.
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:26 PM   #19
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

Those "strange little things" certainly do occur more often than not, but thats one of the things I like about piobaireachd.

In your reading, if you can find a copy, you might want to look over Andrew Wright's General Principles of Piobaireachd. Andrew is a great teacher, and his book is a great resource for anyone learning this type of music. You can read more about it in this thread: http://forums.bobdunsire.com/forums/...d.php?t=150376
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Old 09-14-2017, 01:47 PM   #20
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Default Re: Birls, Low-G gracenotes in Piobaireachd

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Originally Posted by CelticHiker View Post
you might want to look over Andrew Wright's General Principles of Piobaireachd.

Think I found it, I'll definitely pick it up.

Thanks!



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