Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > Music
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 09-10-2020, 06:28 AM   #21
Klondike Waldo
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Braintree MA USA
Posts: 8,581
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aged Piper View Post
Have you considered:

St. Patrick’s Breastplate, a/k/a Christ Before Me?

It was written to the old Welsh tune: SUO GAN.
There are several settings of St Patrick's Breastplate to different tunes, including to BUNESSAN("Morning Has Broken") and several others.


Quote:
Originally Posted by Aged Piper View Post
And

Lord of All Hopefulness, attributed to Irish harpist Turloch O’Carolan?

Both would seem to fit the Guidelines you have set out.
SLANE is the tune usually used for Lord Of All Hopefullness, and would be particularly approprite for St.Patrick, as he lit the Easter fire on the Hill of Slane early in his ministry.
__________________
Slainte Leibh/ Slan Leat, Bob Cameron
Klondike Waldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 09-10-2020, 04:10 PM   #22
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,411
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klondike Waldo View Post
Got Fahter Zigh ( as in sigh) GePREEzen.
Ah, I though sei was "zee"...oh well...

I did get that German "r" in Gepriesen right, I think...
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2020, 04:38 PM   #23
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,411
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aged Piper View Post
Have you considered:

St. Patrick’s Breastplate, a/k/a Christ Before Me?

It was written to the old Welsh tune: SUO GAN.
Interesting! I've only heard St Patrick's Breastplate sung to the tune heard in this video, the tune is also called St Patrick's Breastplate and is said to be an "Irish melody". (#370 in the 1982 Episcopal Hymnal if you have it).

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yH4ToVxtn9A

I've performed this piece many times on the pipes, playing along with pipe organ, choir, and congregation, however I play it on the uilleann pipes.

This tune fits on the Highland pipes, except for one low note, if you play it in the key of D minor, using C natural and F natural fingerings.

There is a key-change in the tune, then you can use the normal Highland pipe scale!

So yes I have considered this tune, I will do it once I'm done with the tunes that can be played on the Highland pipes without using alternate fingerings.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aged Piper View Post

Lord of All Hopefulness, attributed to Irish harpist Turlough Carolan?

Both would seem to fit the Guidelines you have set out.
I've only heard that Hymn sung to the tune SLANE, also said to be an Irish melody.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LCBjxVP6GWE

I've also performed SLANE many times in churches, once again I use the uilleann pipes because the range is far too big for the Highland pipes. (One usually hears SLANE with Be Thou My Vision.)

SLANE is tough on Highland pipes, if you want to blend with choir and organ you need to play all the right notes, just play them in the wrong octave. Either that or write a harmony line that you switch to when the tune goes outside of the Highland pipe's range.

I don't think I've heard any Hymn sung to any Carolan composition.

I have the fairly definitive books on Carolan by Donal O Sullivan, which have all known Carolan compositions plus some attributed to Carolan but not known for sure, and there's no mention of Lord Of All Hopefulness or Slane.

Lord of All Hopefulness is said to be based on an 18th century Italian song, which was translated into English by Edward Caswall (1814-1878).

Carolan died in 1738. It makes me wonder what the provenance is for the connection between that Hymn and Carolan.

BTW here I am playing SLANE (Be Thou My Vision, Lord Of All Hopefulness) on the uilleann pipes. It's the 3rd piece, sorry.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=HARFCTJVZ8I
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte

Last edited by pancelticpiper; 09-10-2020 at 04:57 PM.
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-10-2020, 05:00 PM   #24
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,411
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klondike Waldo View Post
I just worked up "Precious Lord, Take My Hand" for a funeral, if you're interested.
Ah, I looked it up, 1938 and still in copyright, putting it out of reach for me.

I have to stay pre-1925, keep with Public Domain tunes.
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 02:59 AM   #25
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,411
Default Re: A Hymn a day

I looked up St Patrick's Breastplate on Hymnary.org (a wonderful site) and it calls the text, as usual in Hymn practice, by the first line:

I Bind Unto Myself Today

The tune is called ST PATRICK'S BREASTPLATE or simply ST PATRICK in three-quarters of the Hymnals and DEIDRE in the rest.

ST PATRICK and DEIDRE are actually two different traditional Irish tunes, ST PATRICK (in a minor key) serving Verses 1, 2, 3, 4, 5, and 7 while DIEDRE (in a Major key) serves Verse 6.

Personally it sounds a bit odd and unsatisfactory to me. I suppose the intent is for DEIDRE to function as a bridge of sorts (as in pop music).

The only other tunes Hymnary.org gives for I Bind Unto Myself Today, each occurring only in a single Hymnal, are GARTAN (a Joyce air, not familiar to me) and YE BANKS AND BRAES (very familiar).

Now there is a new Hymn also based on St Patrick's Breastplate, written by James Quinn in 1969, called Christ Beside Me which usually uses BUNESSAN but also a new tune called ST ROSE.
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 05:12 PM   #26
Klondike Waldo
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Braintree MA USA
Posts: 8,581
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by pancelticpiper View Post
I looked up St Patrick's Breastplate on Hymnary.org (a wonderful site) and it calls the text, as usual in Hymn practice, by the first line:

[SNIP
Now there is a new Hymn also based on St Patrick's Breastplate, written by James Quinn in 1969, called Christ Beside Me which usually uses BUNESSAN but also a new tune called ST ROSE.
I'll have to look up ST ROSE. BUNESSAN only works right if one has a High B IMHO, so not in the list for tunes of standard 9-note scale.
__________________
Slainte Leibh/ Slan Leat, Bob Cameron
Klondike Waldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-12-2020, 05:18 PM   #27
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,411
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klondike Waldo View Post
BUNESSAN only works right if one has a High B IMHO, so not in the list for tunes of standard 9-note scale.
Not at all! BUNESSAN fits perfectly on "the nine".

There's a key were you get the 9th AND the sharp 7th using ordinary fingerings: G Major.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoe7GlS1vKU&t=9s

Thing is, in G the 4th you get is sharp. Happily there are tunes in a gap scale which have the 9th and the sharp 7th but lack the 4th. BUNESSAN is one of them, NETTLETON is another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juKkCJv3LhI&t=6s
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte

Last edited by pancelticpiper; 09-12-2020 at 05:20 PM.
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 08:04 PM   #28
PiPeZiLLa
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Location: Louisiane
Posts: 254
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Here is a version of "St. Patrick's Breastplate" on the pipes, performed St. Andrew's Pipes and Drums: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=S-YPfgU6Jc8

It is a wonderful melody. I remember the Presbyterian church I grew up in sung it after every baptism. Unfortunately, it has too wide a range for one piper. I'm sure playing with harmonies might make a do-able version.
PiPeZiLLa is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-13-2020, 08:27 PM   #29
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 10,411
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Hard to tell what's going on there, it's 95% pipe organ and/or synth.

Sounds to me that there are gaps between notes that you wouldn't get on Scottish pipes, but would get on a keyboard.

Maybe an electronic chanter?

Too bad they buried whatever it is in the mix, because the tune ST PATRICK does fit on the Highland pipes, in the key of D minor. You just have to play C naturals and F naturals. The range of the tune fits.

LA
D D CNAT LA FNAT
FNAT HA HG FNAT HG E E
HG E CNAT CNAT E HG
FNAT FNAT E

etc.

So for sure when I get to Section 3 (tunes that require alternate fingerings) I will include that tune.
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-14-2020, 07:02 AM   #30
Klondike Waldo
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Braintree MA USA
Posts: 8,581
Default Re: A Hymn a day

Quote:
Originally Posted by pancelticpiper View Post
Not at all! BUNESSAN fits perfectly on "the nine".

There's a key were you get the 9th AND the sharp 7th using ordinary fingerings: G Major.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qoe7GlS1vKU&t=9s

Thing is, in G the 4th you get is sharp. Happily there are tunes in a gap scale which have the 9th and the sharp 7th but lack the 4th. BUNESSAN is one of them, NETTLETON is another:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=juKkCJv3LhI&t=6s
I would agree that it fits the G scale, but against A drones? Not my cup of coffee.
__________________
Slainte Leibh/ Slan Leat, Bob Cameron
Klondike Waldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 03:43 AM.