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Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > History, Tradition, Heritage
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History, Tradition, Heritage As related to the subjects of piping, drumming and pipe bands.

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Old 11-28-2012, 11:30 AM   #21
David
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

Reminds me of going into an Elks Lodge with the pipe band in Oregon, in a very small town somewhere. Not performing, or marching in, but going in for drinks as guests of bandsmen members. We all had on glens. Two guys who were "Elks" got fined. Then there was a friendly but pointed discussion of being fined when in uniform. Apparently there are rules in the throbbing heart of Elkdom, and they broke one. Pipe band uniforms were not "in uniform." We guests were not fined, but were asked to remove the head covering.

The hat is removed, as we were told, because a flag is always flying inside the Elk Hall. There you go--a cultural habit toward the flag. I will never criticize that custom for those of that culture and nationality. We would find it odd to equate removing a hat with respect in Israel, but, we could easily understand the idea behind it. (Traditionally we put hats on at funerals, when praying, at weddings, when reading Bible, etc. for the same reason that Americans take them off.)

Last edited by David; 11-28-2012 at 12:15 PM.
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Old 11-28-2012, 11:47 AM   #22
DanC
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

We have the same rule in legion bars in Canada. Usually, if the band plays into the bar, the hat rule is ignored, but when you come back in for a drink and you're wearing a hat, you're buying a round for the whole bar.
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Old 11-28-2012, 12:38 PM   #23
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

Quote:
Originally Posted by DanC View Post
............but when you come back in for a drink and you're wearing a hat, you're buying a round for the whole bar.
Damn! Now that's about the most important piece of information in this whole thread!!! IMHO, that is!
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Old 11-28-2012, 02:37 PM   #24
aboode
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

Spitfirepiper,
I agree that you can not salute when not wearing a hat. But also you can not salute when you are not wearing a uniform, even when you are the president of the U.S.A.
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Old 11-29-2012, 02:50 AM   #25
David
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Originally Posted by aboode View Post
Spitfirepiper,
I agree that you can not salute when not wearing a hat. But also you can not salute when you are not wearing a uniform, even when you are the president of the U.S.A.
It is acceptable by a provision of military regulation on etiquette in the US for a vet or a serviceman not in uniform to render a hand-salute to the flag, and during the national anthem. I guess the old traditional regs were changed a few years back!

Britain and her cross-pond daughter have a big overlap, but also some differences in these traditions by now.
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Old 11-29-2012, 04:48 AM   #26
Jim Sloan
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

After a misspent youth in the Army -- to this day I can't wear a hat inside or stand around with my hands in my pockets

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Old 11-29-2012, 05:23 AM   #27
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

Actually, the U.S. Army salutes indoors and uncovered, while the Navy and Marine Corps never salute inside unless "under arms" (which means, also, covered inside). I suspect that the Air Force follows the Army tradition, as a result of their heritage (arising from the Army Air Corps after WW II).

The President, as the commander in chief, can do whatever he wants. But the point of a salute to another person is a greeting and mark of respect between military personnel. The biggest offense is to NOT return a salute, even if rendered not in accordance with "your" rules. Hence some confusion sometimes on joint staffs, etc. Members who don't salute under particular circumstances will often respond with a nod of the head - sometimes seen when, in an inside office or ceremony, a soldier will salute a Naval officers. That's why they teach new presidents, even (cough) those who have not served, to return the salute of the Marines who guide them off the helicopter, etc. When the colors come by, the president uses the civilian (hand over heart) salute.

Whatever, if you're going to salute (because your band wears military-style uniforms and you're the drummie, or if you're a uniformed public safety officer, or whatever), spend some time in front of a mirror and LEARN TO DO IT RIGHT! There is nothing that looks worse to those who know what is right than a cocked-wrist, sloppy looking salute. It is a hallmark of an untrained pretender.

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Spitfirepiper,
I agree that you can not salute when not wearing a hat. But also you can not salute when you are not wearing a uniform, even when you are the president of the U.S.A.
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Last edited by Pipin' Paramedic; 11-29-2012 at 05:30 AM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:17 AM   #28
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

No military salutes for me unless absolutely ordered to do so and even then I might try to get out of it! Not because I can't do it properly, but because I've never served and would not want to offend those who have. If I must salute military style I can and will do it correctly, but I won't like it. Safest way to go is to use the civilian 'hand-over-heart' if you've never been in the military... I read a manual, sent to me by a fellow forumite, on protocol for funerals and such and it really cleared up the fact that the 'hand-over-heart' is acceptable even when attached to an Honor Guard. Follow their drill to the letter and salute when they salute, but use the civilian salute rather than the military salute if you've never served.

Thanks to everyone who has responded with info and answers to questions! I was sent a few drill and protocol manuals and they have been a tremendous help in settling this matter for me. Thanks again to everyone!!! A great group of helpful folks on here!
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Old 11-29-2012, 08:12 AM   #29
David
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

That sounds sensible and logical, Campbelgal.

Funny, from what I read here, our commander-in-chief would not have passed a Girl Guides inspection parade, even at his own installation as new chief of staff. Wrinkled shirt, skewed collar, fidgeting, stopping to chat with colour guard soldiers during the ceremony. I'd swear he removed something from between his teeth in the middle of it all!

Its all cultural, folks. Do what your customs and traditions tell you. As a rule, no one is offended if you do, but someone will always be if you don't.

Last edited by David; 11-29-2012 at 08:14 AM.
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Old 11-29-2012, 07:47 PM   #30
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Default Re: Etiquette and Traditions...

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That sounds sensible and logical, Campbelgal.

Funny, from what I read here, our commander-in-chief would not have passed a Girl Guides inspection parade, even at his own installation as new chief of staff. Wrinkled shirt, skewed collar, fidgeting, stopping to chat with colour guard soldiers during the ceremony. I'd swear he removed something from between his teeth in the middle of it all!

Its all cultural, folks. Do what your customs and traditions tell you. As a rule, no one is offended if you do, but someone will always be if you don't.
I'm sure he was fine. Maybe not fine for everywhere but, like you said, it's all cultural. I'm sure you have good reasons for keeping a distinct line between military and civilian life. It might do us all a little better if we were a bit more laid back!

Again, thanks to everyone!!!
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