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Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

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Old 05-10-2018, 05:42 AM   #1
tenthpiper
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Default Old Henderson Tone

I'm curious which pipe makers today base their bore on old Hendersons? With a big, Rich bass heavy sound.
I had to part company with my old set a few years ago and am looking for a replacement .
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:06 AM   #2
Roddy Livingstone
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Two thoughts here:
1. I have owned three sets of Henderson's over the years - 1890s, 1903 & 1930s. All had distinctly different bores, the differences being far more than could be accounted for by 'shrinkage' of the wood.
2. Although others on this forum would disagree with me, I think there will be a difference dependant upon the material. Any modern reproduction in ABW (or any of the other contemporary is, IMO, going to be somewhat different from Ebony or Cocus Wood.
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:24 AM   #3
el gaitero
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roddy Livingstone View Post
Two thoughts here:
1. I have owned three sets of Henderson's over the years - 1890s, 1903 & 1930s. All had distinctly different bores, the differences being far more than could be accounted for by 'shrinkage' of the wood.
2. Although others on this forum would disagree with me, I think there will be a difference dependant upon the material. Any modern reproduction in ABW (or any of the other contemporary is, IMO, going to be somewhat different from Ebony or Cocus Wood.
I wonder I’d Hardie would / could recreate the period Hendie bore a customer wanted to capture. Since it was RGH his goodself who ‘shelved’ the Hendie bore at the almagamation in favor of his own.
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:46 AM   #4
BGP
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

There are a number of makers who's bores are based on Old Henderson's (though as noted there's some variety of Old Henderson bore)
Off the top of my head
Dunbar
Modern/current Hardie/PeterHenderson
Colin Kyo
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Old 05-10-2018, 06:49 AM   #5
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Dunbar and Colin Kyo spring to my mind as well.
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:21 AM   #6
tenthpiper
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Ok thanks. my old pipes were Cocus, turn of the century. Nothing will compare I know but I'm hoping to get in the same ballpark. Which of the older makers would have used a similar bore?
Thanks for your help,
Any more possibilities you can think of?
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:47 AM   #7
Matt Weasner
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Roddy Livingstone View Post
Two thoughts here:
1. I have owned three sets of Henderson's over the years - 1890s, 1903 & 1930s. All had distinctly different bores, the differences being far more than could be accounted for by 'shrinkage' of the wood.
2. Although others on this forum would disagree with me, I think there will be a difference dependant upon the material. Any modern reproduction in ABW (or any of the other contemporary is, IMO, going to be somewhat different from Ebony or Cocus Wood.
If you can even still get the material, I've always been curious to hear what a 'modern manufactured' Henderson bore pipe would sound like in Cocobolo. If it would be similar in sound to an old ebony or cocus set. I've got an old ebony set which I have to baby given the weather here, it would be cool to find a similar sound + presence in a more resilient material.

Back to the orginal question - what about Walsh bagpipes? I think they are Henderson based too. At least the few sets I have heard sure sound like it.

Matt
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Old 05-10-2018, 07:54 AM   #8
HighlandPark
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Roddy makes excellent points that I can verify even with my limited experience. The bores of Hendersons were quite different, even among sets from the same era, and for that matter even within a single set (e.g., between tenor parts). Along with the bores, materials are going to make a difference in the sound signature. I have cocus wood Hendersons and ebony Hendersons from a similar era and both are quite distinct in bore dimensions and, while both have an outstanding, IMHO, their sound signatures are different, all other factors being equal.

That said, the signature tone of Henderson pipes is, with variances, more or less agreed upon: ringing tenors and a big bass. Thankfully, many maker's have based their bores (and profiles) on vintage Peter Henderson bagpipes, but I know that some have tweaked their bores (and profiles) for various reasons. Here are the ones I know of (and there are probably others):

Hardie & Co. Ltd R.G. Hardie & Peter Henderson (top bores based on 1924 Hendersons, bass bottom based on vintage Hardie)
St. Kilda
Dunbar (1930s-40s Hendersons)
Kron Heritage
MacLellan (original bores based on an 1880 set of Hendersons)
Somers
Drumran (but made to be quieter)
Kintail (Drew Sharp worked at Hendersons for many years)
Wallace (based on a set of ca 1910 Hendersons owned by Craig Munro)
Strathmore and Boderiou bagpipes purportedly sound very Henderson-like
R. Francois
Fletcher (based on P/M Angus MacDonald’s Hendersons)
MacMurchie (based on a set of 1930s Hendersons)
Colin Kyo (originally based on Murray's 1903ish Hendersons but tweaked to the point that my 2016 Kyos bear little resemblance in bore diameters to Hendersons, but I would say sound quite similar to Hendersons!)
Kennedy and David Booth, too? Others?
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Last edited by HighlandPark; 05-10-2018 at 08:49 AM.
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Old 05-11-2018, 10:15 AM   #9
Dan Bell
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Henderson's output was so influential that I'd say a decent majority of modern instruments bear that heritage, even if they're not direct copies of old sets. The modern GHB sound in general is very heavily influenced by the Henderson/Lawrie sound of the early 20th century. There are certainly other lineages (for example, Naill, via Starck, Inveran, via Tweedie/Sinclair, Atherton's modern MacDougall reproduction, and so forth), but all of those makers were most certainly aware of Henderson, and what sound was being sought by the top players in each era.
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Old 05-11-2018, 01:54 PM   #10
WBpiper
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Default Re: Old Henderson Tone

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dan Bell View Post
Henderson's output was so influential that I'd say a decent majority of modern instruments bear that heritage, even if they're not direct copies of old sets. The modern GHB sound in general is very heavily influenced by the Henderson/Lawrie sound of the early 20th century. There are certainly other lineages (for example, Naill, via Starck, Inveran, via Tweedie/Sinclair, Atherton's modern MacDougall reproduction, and so forth), but all of those makers were most certainly aware of Henderson, and what sound was being sought by the top players in each era.
I remember reading that McCallum tweaked the drone bores in 2011 and earlier, which were influenced by Willie McCallum's 1890 Hendersons, I have a set from that very year in fact. I stuck my pinky in the drone tops, I also did the same with my Dunbars, the McCallums feel a hair wider (At-least on the tops), I think the ringcaps are a little bigger too.
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Last edited by WBpiper; 05-11-2018 at 01:57 PM.
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