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Old 08-05-2008, 06:01 AM   #11
Bruce Wright
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry
This is a message board.
It is a DISCUSSION board. Kenton's advice to get more low G, while often good, can sometimes lead to the opposite problem. I strongly suspect that if he heard someone actually doing what I described, he would agree with me.

I did not mean to offend anyone, but I stand by everything I said in that message and would say it again if the situation came up again. If it gores somebody's ox, then good! It's an ox that needs to be gored.

Bruce
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:24 AM   #12
King Henry
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Bruce Wright
I did not mean to offend anyone, but I stand by everything I said in that message and would say it again if the situation came up again. If it gores somebody's ox, then good! It's an ox that needs to be gored.Bruce
Offended I am not but thanks for the apology anyway. And I would hope you stand by what you say, if you didn't, what kind of man would you be? Gore somebody's ox??? I believe you were the one who brought up the whole instructor thing in a topic that did not come close to asking about that.

King
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:42 AM   #13
Bruce Wright
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

Quote:
Originally Posted by King Henry
Gore somebody's ox???
King Henry,

I put in that comment because, like Hamlet, I thought it was likely that "He doth protest too much, methinks." In nearly all cases like this it's extremely valuable - in fact, essential - to get feedback from more experienced players.

I still feel that the comment was germane to the discussion - especially considering that the original poster isn't the only person reading it. If you don't like my comments you don't have to read them!

Bruce
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Old 08-05-2008, 06:49 AM   #14
King Henry
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

Bruce,

I would certainly take advice from an experienced player like you before I would from me.

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Old 08-05-2008, 07:23 AM   #15
Kenton Adler
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up


Bruce has a good point. You don't want to go too far the opposite direction and disrupt the musical flow.

But in the beginning, playing a more open embellishment is going to build a good foundaton for later. And playing more open means hearing every note. The most common mistake I hear from new learners on the D Throw is rushing through the Low G to get to the throw, and it's all mush at that point. And in this case the "freeze" is very likely coming from nerves, and knowing that the mush is coming. So, I suggest emphasizing that Low G just a little for now. Not resting on it, but making sure it's good and solid, and then letting the D-C-D rip. And I'd suggest the Light D Throw for now.

Check out how Jim Bell demonstrates it in the video lessons on the Lyon site

http://www.lyon.edu/webdata/groups/s...sons/index.htm

It's lesson #8. And you can fix your friggin' Birl at the same time.

Henry was still right though. Consciously relax. In fact, try doing some of this low hand stuff with your right thumb completely off the chanter. Just rest the sole of the chanter on the table to support it while you do that. You should be practicing that way anyway ya cheeky monkey.

Now sit up straight.

K
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:25 AM   #16
bugz
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

Quote:
Originally Posted by RandyJ
Last week I accidently cut the underside of my right thumb. I heal fast and was able to pick my PC back up after a few days. My thumb was still sore but I was amazed how my B, C, doublings came to life. Now that the tenderness is wearing off I find myself gripping too tightly every so often and I have to make myself loosen up.
I've heard that one way to train yourself out of the chanter death grip is to tape a thumb tack to the chanter so the point projects where your right thumb rests. That gives you a real 'pointed' reminder to hold the chanter lightly.
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Old 08-05-2008, 07:26 AM   #17
sonofsomerled
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

You guys need to ease back on the caffeine, but I liked the "goring of the bull" reference!

My 2 cents is that when you have a problem with a "lost" d-throw or B doubling, or... SLOW DOWN and go over the movement SLOWLY and EVENLY. Practice it that way patiently for an hour and really think about it. Most sloppyisms can be cured this way. However, for a rank beginner, Bruce's comment is spot on. Practice slowly, then show your instructor the new and improved D-throw and confirm that you are playing it correctly. Then your work is done.

No big deal really, and this method will always be handy to you. Unfortunately, embellishments are not "permanently" learned. You will have to go back and fine tune them from time to time. Also, MANY people sacrifice good technique for speed - avoid this.
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Old 08-05-2008, 08:17 AM   #18
Bruce Wright
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenton Adler
But in the beginning, playing a more open embellishment is going to build a good foundaton for later. [...] The most common mistake I hear from new learners on the D Throw is rushing through the Low G to get to the throw, and it's all mush at that point.
What he said.

I also often hear beginners substitute a low A for a low G on the D throw - it's a little easier to get in, but it doesn't get the right sound. Most aren't even aware that they're doing it.

Probably 90% of the time the problem is rushing - rushing the embellishment, rushing the melody, etc. Then if you think you don't have time to get in the (rushed) execution, you get nervous and your fingers lock up! It's a vicious cycle.

And yes, like King Henry said, you gotta relax! I know my students all think I'm some sort of broken record about that subject.

Bruce
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Old 08-05-2008, 09:37 AM   #19
Kenton Adler
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up



Nothing wrong with being a record breaker, Bruce.

Let's hope we have some of that from the USA in the Olympics coming up. Only we don't want them to slow down. It's different.

K
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Old 08-05-2008, 10:06 AM   #20
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Default Re: D-Throw freeze up

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kenton Adler
...Consciously relax. In fact, try doing some of this low hand stuff with your right thumb completely off the chanter. Just rest the sole of the chanter on the table to support it while you do that.
K
Good advice. When I started PC I was worried about tension, because when I younger I practiced accordion 2-4 hours nearly every day with not so good right-hand position. Surgery followed by the time I was 16!

At one point, I taped a Sharpie marker onto the back of my PC to get my thumb further off of it into a more relaxed, open-handed position and left it there for quite a while.

When I finally took it off, my fingers were laying MUCH lighter on the chanter and all right hand technique improved, along with the enjoyableness of lengthy practicing. It really worked for my hand.

I suppose you could always tape a thumbtack to the back of the PC where your thumb lays, if you are a hardcore type of person. Good luck!

BH
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