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Old 06-24-2018, 01:34 PM   #21
Green Piper
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *COMBOS* work well in your pipes (and why)?

Well, borrowed one last weekend and have yet to try it. Surely, they must work (and obviously do) in some makes of bass drone.

Charlie
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Old 06-24-2018, 03:03 PM   #22
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *COMBOS* work well in your pipes (and why)?

I did an experiment today with various tenor drone reeds in my 1950s Henderson tenor drone, 2 wraps of hemp showing on the tuning pin.

Below is the frequency plot where you get an idea of overall volume compared to each other. I've shifted the pitch of each drone reed up 20 Hz sequentially so the peaks don't overlap and obfuscate each other.



Below is the same data but each drone reed's spectrum has been normalized so that the fundamental is equal to 1. This helps comparing the magnitude of the overtones, though absolute volume has been removed from the equation.



Conclusions:
1) I may have to amend my statement "x-treme tenors are less harmonic than ezee tenors"
2) Ezeedrone tenors are quite complex, but not the loudest reeds.
3) My previous experience with Cannings being mostly just the fundamental is once again confirmed.
4) I need to find a working cane reed. I boogered all mine up with mold trying to introduce moisture.
5) Redwoods are no slouch in the volume or overtone departments, as are Selbie. This is notable for reeds that don't have the buzz other relatively loud reeds have.

Not the most perfectly run experiment, but perhaps interesting, nonetheless.

Here's the note names of the first few overtones and their frequencies:
tenor fundamental peak at 237.599 Hz (A )
tenor overtone 2 at 475.197 Hz (A )
tenor overtone 3 at 712.796 Hz (E )
tenor overtone 4 at 950.394 Hz (A )
tenor overtone 5 at 1187.99 Hz (C#)
tenor overtone 6 at 1425.59 Hz (E )
tenor overtone 7 at 1663.19 Hz (G )
tenor overtone 8 at 1900.79 Hz (A )
tenor overtone 9 at 2138.39 Hz (B )
tenor overtone 10 at 2375.99 Hz (C#)

Last edited by Patrick McLaurin; 06-24-2018 at 03:08 PM.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:49 AM   #23
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *COMBOS* work well in your pipes (and why)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McLaurin View Post
And what about those Breadalbanes? Bread and butter Ezee tenors and a Kinnaird bass?
But of course!
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Old 06-25-2018, 09:25 AM   #24
Shawn Husk
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *COMBOS* work well in your pipes (and why)?

1905 ebony Lawries, bass bottom is sleeved with a brass tube (this was essential for stability and reed compatibility in my pipes)

I prefer big drones with lots of harmonics.

My two favorite set ups:

Balance Tone High Resonance across the board - this gives me incredible harmonics and a huge sound. They are not the most stable and I find them very hard to get clean cut offs because the tongues are so light. But for sound I prefer these the most.

Kinnaird Evo bass and regular Kinnaird tenors - this set up is extremely stable and strike ins and cut offs are a breeze. These have a much smoother sound with less harmonic overtones (IE. less buzz) but would be more in line with what most modern upper level players and judges seem to prefer.

I want to experiment with some Ezee tenors and a cane bass soon. Just to see what kind of tone this very common top piper combo would produce.

On Ezeedrones - I have always loved their tenor reeds. Very reliable and compatible with almost every brand of pipes out there. However, I have never liked their regular bass reed. It's always been low volume and dull sounding to me. Now their Inverted bass reed is a completely different animal. I've found these to be great bass reeds and I always recommend them if people are getting Ezees.
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:05 PM   #25
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *combos* work well in your pipes (and why)?

OK, I made recordings of three different synthetic bass reeds alongside my Ezeedrone tenors in my Robertson drones.

I'll be darned if I can pick a preference, although one sounds a little more integrated with the tenors

Please could someone tell me how to attach the mp3 files?

Thanks,
Charlie
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Old 06-25-2018, 02:42 PM   #26
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *combos* work well in your pipes (and why)?

Just like photos, they have to be elsewhere on the net and you link to them. I can host them if you email them to me. Soundcloud reduces the quality of the streaming so I wouldn’t use them.
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Old 06-25-2018, 03:31 PM   #27
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *combos* work well in your pipes (and why)?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Patrick McLaurin View Post
Just like photos, they have to be elsewhere on the net and you link to them. I can host them if you email them to me. Soundcloud reduces the quality of the streaming so I wouldnít use them.


Sound files emailed to you.

Thanks,
Charlie
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:22 PM   #28
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *combos* work well in your pipes (and why)?

The best combinations are the most harmonious with the chanter.


Any other instrument, including the human voice, are measured this way. Seems the GHB is different but not sure why.


If you have a tenor drone reed with a strong fundamental, and you partner it with one of those big strong buzzy sounding carbon bass reeds with a strong partial overtone, you cannot get them to lock harmoniously. When you then try to lock them with your chanter notes, A's then E (5th) & D (4th), you cannot because the wrong fundamental is prominent.


Much the way an orchestra conductor selects the number of a particular instrument or a live band uses a sound mixer, the blend of tone, amplitude and volume has to be right to get the best harmonious sound. If a single tenor is at x db, two tenors are + 3 db and if those tenors are in sync at the top of the sine wave + 6 db.


It is so subjective when someone gives an opinion as in the absence of measurable figures, it is just a subjective view and impossible to quantify or apply.


There are a couple of synthetic drone reeds that have a stronger fundamental overtone than most on the market. If you couple them with the compatible drones, you get a very harmonious tone. With the correctly tuned chanter, you get the most harmonious tones, as can be objectively measured. It will never be the "BEST" sound as the "BEST" sound is just a sound in the head of individuals.


An example is the early Indian army GHB sets. Many were fully lined with brass to make them environmentally robust. They were partial to specific reeds and produce high partials when used with modern buzzy carbon reeds. Use soft synthetics or cane and they produced a very acceptable fundamental tone, as can be measured.


I have also been told of a ratio between bass, tenor and chanter. Have never seen this ration documented but it does seem to have a ring of credibility, does this figure exist?
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:28 PM   #29
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *combos* work well in your pipes (and why)?

In reply to Laap..... this is why I posted my drone reed combo files. None of them are with a chanter, I hope to upload other files later.

What interests me is how others perceive the combination of tenor reeds and drone reeds. After that, itís about how they blend with the chanter. Rather than use fancy graphs, I figure that hearing will help inform me about what I like best.

It is not that I dislike the science of sound that underlies our perceptions of what sounds good, but Iíd like to find out what does sound good, then figure out why it sounds good.

Patrickís analyses are very interesting. What would be good to add is some kind of frequency plot of combinations of tenor and bass reeds.

Charlie
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Old 06-25-2018, 04:31 PM   #30
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Default Re: What *interesting* drone reed *combos* work well in your pipes (and why)?

The funny thing is that when I listen to the recordings I made, there is very little that I can perceive to differentiate them. Each recording has a different bass drone reed. To me, they all sound pretty good.

Charlie
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