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Old 04-30-2019, 01:44 PM   #1
Patrick McLaurin
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Default GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

For those privy to such insight, any idea how Donald MacLeod might have intended the phrasing of the GDED gracenote pattern at the end of every line in "Roderick MacDonald"? In his 6th book, he wrote it completely round.

I offer the 3 alternatives I've thought of:

long short short long
https://www.patrickmclaurin.com/word...acdonald-1.mp3

long short long short
https://www.patrickmclaurin.com/word...acdonald-2.mp3

short long short long
https://www.patrickmclaurin.com/word...acdonald-3.mp3

Last edited by Patrick McLaurin; 04-30-2019 at 01:51 PM.
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Old 05-01-2019, 10:02 AM   #2
teuchter46
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

Id have gone with something close to your second one (long-short-long-short) with the caveat that the fourth note should not be cut too much. The last low G is a big fat and note (linking note) to my eye and the D gracenote on it should have the effect of preventing you from cutting too much.


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Old 05-01-2019, 10:16 AM   #3
DNorwood
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

From all indications and as referenced in other threads, it seems your interpretations are as good and valid as any other.
Acknowledging of course, you've quite the skill.

So play on good sir - as the spirit and emotion drive you.

BTW, I enjoy your page and contributions to the community.
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Old 05-01-2019, 12:53 PM   #4
Pppiper
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by DNorwood View Post
BTW, I enjoy your page and contributions to the community.
... hear hear!
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Old 05-02-2019, 06:03 AM   #5
CalumII
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

Quote:
Originally Posted by teuchter46 View Post
Id have gone with something close to your second one (long-short-long-short) with the caveat that the fourth note should not be cut too much. The last low G is a big fat and note (linking note) to my eye and the D gracenote on it should have the effect of preventing you from cutting too much.

This is a good example of somewhere that the North American style of extremely small, tight gracenoting is unhelpful, to my mind.



I agree that the first three notes should be LSL, because that's the only reason you'd write GDE in the first place. The last note needs to be tight because if we're choosing to point the tune, well, that's how it needs to be there in a reel. I would actually be inclined to drop the D gracenote in this case, because I don't particularly believe in technique for its own sake, and the gracenote isn't adding anything to a short note. But if you keep it in, trying to throw a tight gracenote onto a very short low G is asking for trouble. Letting that D gracenote fatten up and bringing it down at the correct time gives you the means to swing through the low G effectively.


Lastly, I think all this is a red herring, because it seems to me that the tune is written to be played round; while it can be played either way, at the time this was written the round style of playing was having a moment both in performance and composition.
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Old 05-02-2019, 12:13 PM   #6
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

Quote:
Originally Posted by teuchter46 View Post
I’d have gone with something close to your second one (long-short-long-short) with the caveat that the fourth note should not be cut too much. The last low G is a big fat “and” note (linking note) to my eye and the D gracenote on it should have the effect of preventing you from cutting too much.
The big fat "and" note is kinda why I like version 1.

Quote:
Originally Posted by DNorwood View Post
From all indications and as referenced in other threads, it seems your interpretations are as good and valid as any other.
Acknowledging of course, you've quite the skill.

So play on good sir - as the spirit and emotion drive you.

BTW, I enjoy your page and contributions to the community.
Gee golly, I'd hate to think of myself as any sort of authority. I know enough to know I don't know the answer to this question!

But, I concede, I certainly have no problems playing my own interpretations.

Quote:
Originally Posted by CalumII View Post
I agree that the first three notes should be LSL, because that's the only reason you'd write GDE in the first place. The last note needs to be tight because if we're choosing to point the tune, well, that's how it needs to be there in a reel. I would actually be inclined to drop the D gracenote in this case, because I don't particularly believe in technique for its own sake, and the gracenote isn't adding anything to a short note. But if you keep it in, trying to throw a tight gracenote onto a very short low G is asking for trouble. Letting that D gracenote fatten up and bringing it down at the correct time gives you the means to swing through the low G effectively.

Lastly, I think all this is a red herring, because it seems to me that the tune is written to be played round; while it can be played either way, at the time this was written the round style of playing was having a moment both in performance and composition.
I thought the same about removing the D gracenote on the G. I've got a student who I think this tune would be good for and removing the gracenote would be helpful, I think.

I'm not experienced enough to know how a judge of a Grade 3 competition would take the playing of a round reel, or playing a reel round. It's always interesting to see dot-cut and round indicated in the same tune, e.g. Dr. MacInnes' Fancy. I also don't think a reel like Roderick MacDonald would ever be played straight round, would it? Surely some pulse is implied, which would then bring us back to how to pulse the GDED.

Last edited by Patrick McLaurin; 05-02-2019 at 12:16 PM.
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Old 05-02-2019, 04:59 PM   #7
CalumII
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by Patrick McLaurin View Post
I'm not experienced enough to know how a judge of a Grade 3 competition would take the playing of a round reel, or playing a reel round.

You just have to play it well enough there's no arguing with it, I say
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Old 05-02-2019, 05:09 PM   #8
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by CalumII View Post
You just have to play it well enough there's no arguing with it, I say
Touche'
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Old 05-04-2019, 07:42 AM   #9
Barry Shears
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

Patrick, I used to play the short long short long sequence for these notes (as those in the last phase of tunes like the Sheepwife and Smiths of Chilliechassie, especially in competition, but after hearing older pipers such as Joe Hughie Macintyre and Alex Curie plat these tunes I opted for the long short short long style. Your sound example is close but they put a bit more emphasis on the first note a bit less on the second note and even less on the third note. Nuances of playing for sure.
Just my two cents
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Old 05-05-2019, 12:58 AM   #10
Neill Mulvie
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

[QUOTE=Patrick McLaurin;1336979]For those privy to such insight, any idea how Donald MacLeod might have intended the phrasing of the GDED gracenote pattern at the end of every line in "Roderick MacDonald"? In his 6th book, he wrote it completely round.

Why not listen to the Piper In the Nave CD sold by Scotsoun CDs on which Donald is recorded playing the tune?
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