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Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

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Old 08-23-2017, 05:07 PM   #11
BaggyMcPipes
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

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Originally Posted by BaggyMcPipes View Post
Celtic Pipes is, indeed, available for Mac. It's pretty great, too. I'd give out my stamp of approval, if I had such a stamp to give...
Oh, sorry, didn't see the many other replies...
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:17 PM   #12
Phil Lenihan
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

I would try YouTube first. Somebody may have posted it.
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Old 08-23-2017, 05:46 PM   #13
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

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Originally Posted by salmunmousavi View Post
I found some tunes I want to learn, but I've never heard any of them before so I don't know what they sound like.
Ah, the sheet music tells what all the tunes sound like, but one must first learn how to read it.

A person who can get the pitches of notes from the sheet music, but not the timing, is like a person who can pronounce the sounds of vowels from written language, but doesn't know what the consonants sound like. You're only reading half of what was written.

I learned how to sight-read much like an earlier poster mentioned. I read through every tune in Scots Guards on a rainy day back around 1975. I would be stumbling through a tune and suddenly it would dawn on me that it was a tune which I knew the sound of very well. Eventually I figured out what written things meant which rhythms.

It would have been far faster to just learn how to sight-read timing in the normal way, learning the math of it and how to count beats. Yet my unstructured ramblings eventually bore fruit, and I can now play any pipe tune at tempo or fairly close to tempo at first sight.
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:21 AM   #14
Pppiper
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

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Originally Posted by salmunmousavi View Post
I think the hardest time signature for me to wrap my head around is 9/8.
I've been there. It's been a long road for me, struggling with getting better at sight reading. Seriously, just keep at it, and it'll come ... albeit slowly.

Celtic Pipes is a good method ... try your best sight reading for a while, and if you're not able to "hear" the tune from what you're trying to play from the page ... then head over to the computer and key in the notes. It'll help you start to figure out where you were going wrong.

When it comes to 9/8 ... or 12/8 ... this may sound nuts, but when I was learning, I would often ignore the barlines, and pretend that it's 6/8 instead. When I do that, it ends up sounding in my head like a 6/8 tune, but with a little bit of extra tacked on the end of each part. Eventually I didn't need to think of it that way anymore, but it took time.

The beat groupings are the same ... everything's the same ... you just have 3 beat groupings per bar instead of 2. So if that's all that's tripping you up, ignore the barlines. Those are supposed to be there to aid you anyways, so if they don't help, then disregard.

So maybe try that?? It helped me, hopefully it'll be a help for you too.

Best of luck, let us know how things go.

Cheers,
~Nate

Last edited by Pppiper; 08-24-2017 at 06:30 AM.
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Old 08-24-2017, 06:40 AM   #15
3D Piper
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

Head over to Pipetunes, search for the tune, and listen to the free audio of it being played.


-Matthew
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Old 08-24-2017, 11:29 AM   #16
el gaitero
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

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Originally Posted by salmunmousavi View Post
The book I have (which is one of my favorites) is Seaforth Highlanders, so I will definitely implement that technique when reading that one. I think the hardest time signature for me to wrap my head around is 9/8. I can play Battle of the Somme just fine, but only because I have heard it played on albums before and can hear the note values as they apply to the time signatures and individual measures. But playing any other tune in 9/8 has proven very difficult.


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Ditto to Codart. U might also try learning a(ny) tune 'backwards'...by going to the last measure of line 2 ....play the last note...then whatever ornament or note or note group before it. Don't rush......in a short while you will have hopefully learned the last measure of the common ending...now get the first measure of the common ending the same way.
Now you've possibly learned almost half the tune. Follow thru with the rest of the tune measures.....you might even find it is indeed a tune you can hum....but never knew the name of. Good luck.
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Old 08-25-2017, 10:26 AM   #17
Skyelark
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

Hey,

Even if I know how the tune goes I still usually find either a youtube video or use Spotify, Itunes or other music streaming service and listen to a couple of recordings of it. I actually prefer the streaming option as I can listen on the go & usually the quality of recording & playing is better than (often) amateur youtube videos.

It's rare that a tune doesn't exist somewhere on the web - & if it doesn't, chances are it's not being played for a reason.

G
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Old 09-26-2017, 08:10 AM   #18
Parahandy
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

Don't make the mistake of counting foot-taps as beats or you'll think there's only two beats per bar in a 6/8. Your foot tap is counting groups of three beats. The easiest way of understanding that is to look at a 6/8 jig. The notes will be grouped into three's and (normally) your foot will fall on the first note of each 3.

To understand that, try saying the words jiggery pokery along with the Jig. Ji Ger Rey, Po Ker Rey with the beat falling on the capital letter. What you get is 123, 123, the first bar of 6 beats. Your foot taps twice counting the triads. So what you think is a beat is actually the tune's pulse. To confuse matters, different musicians use different terminology. Some say that when I'm counting what I (and most time signature explanations) call beats, I'm actually counting notes and the pulse is the beat. But if you count the pulse, you won't get the time signature except in common time, 4/4.

In traditional music, people often ask how to tell the difference between a reel and a jig. Saying a jig is 6/8 and a reel 4/4 doesn't help. Telling them if jiggery pokery fits the tune, it's a jig and if 'this is how a reel goes' Thisis Howa Reel Goes, fits, it's a reel. That's much more helpful. Imagine you're working a weaving loom with two peddles that go click clack and each click and clack makes the machine go jiggery pokery. Tap your feet one. two, one , two and jiggery pokery, jiggery pokery, 123, 123, 123, 123. Similarly do the same with a reel; click clack click clack, thisis howa reel goes, thisis howa reel goes, two beats for the full phrase, 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234. The reel sounds more like a steam engine than the clanky, old, jiggy loom.

Another way of understanding the relationship between the pulse and the beat is to think of a clockwork mechanism like a watch. You can hear the second hand going tick tock tick tock but the mechanism supporting it is going 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234, a group of four for each tick or tock which, if you gave a second the value of a quarter note, the above would be in 8/4 time or if the second is an eighth note the watch has a 16/8 time signature. So you could have a 3/4, 4/4, 6/8 or any other time signature with the same pulse. The beat, or rhythm, supporting the pulse can be quite different.

If you want to understand the triad, the 123, 123, think of a waltz. As the musician taps his feet to the tune, the dancers take three steps for every tap. You can have 6/8 waltzes and 9/8 (slip jig) or 12/8 jigs as long as there are groups of three beats or steps. Remember, waltz, jig or reel, it's a dance, and the beat is marked by the dancer's feet, not the musician's.

Last edited by Parahandy; 09-26-2017 at 08:24 AM.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:02 AM   #19
Parahandy
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

Don't make the mistake of counting foot-taps as beats or you'll think there's only two beats per bar in a 6/8. Your foot tap is counting groups of three beats. The easiest way of understanding that is to look at a 6/8 jig. The notes will be grouped into three's and (normally) your foot will fall on the first note of each 3.

To understand that, try saying the words jiggery pokery along with the Jig. Ji Ger Rey, Po Ker Rey with the beat falling on the capital letter. What you get is 123, 123, the first bar of 6 beats. Your foot taps twice counting the triads. So what you think is a beat is actually the tune's pulse. To confuse matters, different musicians use different terminology. Some say that when I'm counting what I (and most time signature explanations) call beats, I'm actually counting notes and the pulse is the beat. But if you count the pulse, you won't get the time signature except in common time, 4/4.

In traditional music, people often ask how to tell the difference between a reel and a jig. Saying a jig is 6/8 and a reel 4/4 doesn't help. Telling them if jiggery pokery fits the tune, it's a jig and if 'this is how a reel goes' Thisis Howa Reel Goes, fits, it's a reel. That's much more helpful.

Another way of understanding the relationship between the pulse and the beat is to think of a clockwork mechanism like a watch. You can hear the second hand going tick tock tick tock but the mechanism supporting it is going 1234, 1234, 1234, 1234, a group of four for each tick or tock which, if you gave a second the value of a quarter note, the above would be in 8/4 time or if the second is an eighth note the watch has a 16/8 time signature. So you could have a 3/4, 4/4, 6/8 or any other time signature with the same pulse. The beat, or rhythm, supporting the pulse can be quite different.

If you want to understand the triad, the 123, 123, think of a waltz. As the musician taps his feet to the tune, the dancers take three steps for every tap. You can have 6/8 waltzes and 9/8 (slip jig) or 12/8 jigs as long as there are groups of three beats or steps. Remember, waltz, jig or reel, it's a dance, and the beat is marked by the dancer's feet, not the musician's.
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Old 09-26-2017, 09:24 AM   #20
3D Piper
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Default Re: Help figuring out some tunes?

Quote:
Don't make the mistake of counting foot-taps as beats or you'll think there's only two beats per bar in a 6/8.
Wait- there ARE only two beats per bar in a 6/8!

What you are describing is the difference between simple time and compound time. In simple time, each beat will be subdivided by an even number (usually 2). The different beats per bar can be duple(2), triple (3), or quadruple (4). So a 4/4 would be simple quadruple (simple time four beats per bar). 3/4 would be simple triple (simple time three beats per bar). 2/4 would be simple duple (simple time two beats per bar).
Compound time means each beat will be subdivided by an uneven number of notes, usually 3. So a 6/8 would be compound duple (compound time two beats per bar). A 9/8 would be compound triple (compound time three beats per bar). A 12/8 would be compound quadruple (compound time four beats per bar).


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