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Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

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Old 07-15-2017, 12:53 PM   #1
Gr8_Piper
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Default Bagpipe Lineage

I'm sure its been done, but I don't know where to get the details. But how did the various makes of pipes evolve? What I mean is that I believe Atherton's are based on MacDougall's, Dunbar's on Henderson's.

As for vintage makers I think Center's evolved into Robertson's and they in turn became Kron's. That kind of thing

Also some vintages a better like Lawrie's made before 1936 when John McColl was the shop manager.

Thanks for any input or feed back
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Old 07-15-2017, 05:24 PM   #2
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Bagpipe Linage

I think you mean lineage.

Do you have Highland Bagpipe Makers? It's a fascinating read, and answers many or most of your questions.

John MacColl became manager of Lawries in 1908.

My notes on the subject (please correct whatever errors there are, I don't claim to have any kind of inside or secret knowledge).

Makers based on:

Henderson
-new Hardie/Henderson/St Kilda
-Dunbar
-Kron Heritage (1912 Henderson)
-MacLellan (1890 Henderson)
-MacMurchie

Lawrie
-McCallum (Stuart MCallum's WWI Lawrie; in 2011 changes were made in all drones "to be more like Willie McCallum's 1890 Hendersons")

MacDougall
-Crisler
-Atherton
-Gibson (Colin MacLellan's MacDougall; at some point Jerry Gibson changed the bass and added "a factory insert")
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Last edited by pancelticpiper; 07-15-2017 at 05:32 PM.
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Old 07-16-2017, 05:57 AM   #3
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Default Re: Bagpipe Lineage

I'm not sure that Centers evolved into Robertsons. Center packed up and moved to Australia in 1908. As he made pipes in Australia he probably took his tools and dies with him.

Robertson took over the shop, but is there any suggestion that he worked for or with Center? Certainly the earliest Robertson I've seen, ca.1920, looked nothing like Center's pipes. I know nothing of the sound. I'd be interested to know that there was a connection.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:02 AM   #4
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Default Re: Bagpipe Lineage

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gr8_Piper View Post
I'm sure its been done, but I don't know where to get the details...Thanks for any input or feed back
A good question. I've been putzing around with this topic for a while and some of my cobbled together notes, much of it from this forum, can be found here.
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Old 07-16-2017, 07:21 AM   #5
Gr8_Piper
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Default Re: Bagpipe Lineage

Excellent information. Thank you for sharing. Very helpful
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Old 07-16-2017, 10:23 AM   #6
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Bagpipe Lineage

Quote:
Originally Posted by HighlandPark View Post
some of my cobbled together notes, much of it from this forum, can be found here.

Thanks, I had less than half that stuff. Great to see so much more.

It goes to show how lineage may not show up in the actual pipes. Kintail is said to be of Henderson lineage but the Kintails I owned had zero relationship to the original Hendersons I had, in regards to the internal specs.

Perhaps the relationship was with the late Hardie-Hendersons? Both of them narrower-bore quiet pipes, completely different from my WWI big-bore Henderson set.

But a friend has silver & ivory 1980s Kintails which sound great. Who can say.

Old pipes are always so interesting. I have a set of Starcks said to be from c1945. The tone of their drones is wonderfully rich and complex, but too quiet to be a good band set. Paired with a 466 chanter the tone is amazing.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:10 AM   #7
Dave Gallagher
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Default Re: Bagpipe Lineage

I think that Center pipes were the basis of the pipes made by Gillanders and McLeod.
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Old 07-17-2017, 08:57 AM   #8
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Default Re: Bagpipe Lineage

Quote:
Originally Posted by pancelticpiper View Post

But a friend has silver & ivory 1980s Kintails which sound great. Who can say.
My original bagpipe, which I still have and play, and want to get refurbished, is a 1982 Kintail KB-3. Always got high praise for the tone of the drones from various piping judges when I competed in solos. Unfortunately, during the '80s, Kintail had a lot of problems and there are a lot of bad sets out there, but there were also some real gems.

Cheers -

Wes
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Old 07-18-2017, 05:22 AM   #9
Greenpipe
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Default Re: Bagpipe Lineage

Quote: I think that Center pipes were the basis of the pipes made by Gillanders and McLeod.


You may well be right, Dave. Ringo's Bagpipe Museum site says that Robert Gillanders worked with James Center, John's son, before the Centers went to Australia.
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