Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > Music
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 09-25-2018, 07:52 PM   #1
d303burrous
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 41
Default Waltzing Matilda

Am preparing a presentation in November to commemorate the end of WW1 which illustrates the role of bagpipes during that war.



I cannot find any information on Waltzing Matilda that explains if this tune was ever used during the war and if so, which soldiers/regiments/battalions might have used it.



I can find lots of background information that describes the role of the pipes with tunes like When the Battle's Over, The Piper of Loos, Over There, It's a Long Way to Tipperary; but nothing about Waltzing Matilda. That is to say, I can't find any information about when it might have been played during the war.



Was this not a popular piece for WW1 pipers to play?
__________________
David Burrous
One Piper Piping
Lafayette, CO 80026
d303burrous@msn.com
d303burrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 09-25-2018, 09:05 PM   #2
Kevin
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Southern Ontario
Posts: 942
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

I'm not sure if this will help but the tune(s) "The woods of Craigielee" and "The Craigielee March" apparently preceded the song. You may have some more luck searching those titles.

Best regards,
Kevin
Kevin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 05:19 AM   #3
Adam Sanderson
Moderator
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Milngavie, East Dunbartonshire, Scotland
Posts: 7,813
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

Quote:
Originally Posted by d303burrous View Post


Was this not a popular piece for WW1 pipers to play?
I have been at a number of events commemorating the pipers of WW1, many regimental historians were present and we have evidence of which tunes were regularly played in WW1. I have a list here.

It was pretty much as you'd expect from that time;
Cabar Feidh,
Standard on the Braes of Mar,
Campbells are Coming,
March of the Cameron Men,
Gillean nan Fheile,
The Blue Bonnets,
Cock of the North (2 parts only),
Land of the Leal,
Lord Lovat's Lament,
Lochaber No More,
Glendaruel Highlanders, (2 parts only).
Piobaireachd of Donald Dhu

When the Battle is Over comes from another war, Piper of Loos was written after WW1, It's a Long Way to Tipperary might possibly have been busked in the trenches by some random piper, but there's no eyewitness evidence that it ever was. We do know from contemporary written evidence that trench "busking" tunes, (for this purpose, tunes soldiers would sing along to), included Mucking of Geordie's Byre and Bonnie Dundee.

I know nothing about "Over There".

I had never heard of Waltzing Matilda being played on the pipes until I joined this forum. I still have never heard it played on the pipes, to me it seems a very odd tune to play on the GHB, it doesn't fit the scale, and I don't recall seeing or hearing of it being played in WW1. Many Australian Infantry Brigades had a full pipe band, amongst others, but it's estimated 18% of the brigade were actual Scots, with the percentage of Scots in the actual pipe bands being much higher. There were regimental links with Scottish units.

5th Battalion (The Victorian Scottish Regiment) were associated with the Gordon Highlanders, and played Cock of the North, Standard on the Braes of Mar, etc.
16th Battalion (Cameron Highlanders of Western Australia) were associated with the Cameron Highlanders and played March of the Cameron Men, Piobaireachd of Donald Dhu, etc.
27th Battalion (South Australian Scottish Regiment) were associated with the Seaforth Highlanders and played Cabar Feidh, Gillean nan Fheile, etc.
30th Battalion (New South Wales Scottish Regiment) were associated with the Black Watch, and the 41st Battalion (Byron Regiment) were associated with the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. All the regiments played the regimental tunes they were associated with. I can find no reference to "Waltzing Matilda" anywhere.

There were a number of tunes published after WW1 that have become associated with WW1, and some of them are crackers.

As most of you know, I work in a museum, and we have a large WW1 commemorative exhibition on at the moment. Roddy MacLeod will be coming in on Remembrance Sunday to play Lament for the Iolaire. This tune was written after WW1, but is entirely appropriate to play as it commemorates an awful tragedy from that time.

In short, if you want to play tunes that were actually played in WW1, the list is above. If you want to play tunes that commemorate WW1, The Piper of Loos would be fine, but I don't get Waltzing Matilda on the pipes.

There's only one well documented WW1 Anzac solo piper, Warrant Officer Archibald Monk, of the 3rd Australian General Hospital. He was not a native Australian, but was a Gaelic speaker from Benbecula, Outer Hebrides. He served with the Cameron Highlanders for many years before emigrating to Australia where he enlisted quite quickly. It's been suggested that he would have played the Cameron regt. standards, Standard on the Braes of Mar, Piobaireachd of Donald Dhu, etc, but we'll never know.

I hope this is of some help.
__________________
Scottish Pipers' Association FB page Please click and "like". Thanks
Callander Pipe Band FB page Please click and "like". Thanks
Scottish Pipers' Association website
Adam Sanderson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 09:52 AM   #4
Klondike Waldo
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2002
Location: Braintree MA USA
Posts: 8,091
Send a message via AIM to Klondike Waldo
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

"Over There" is an American song, words and music by George M Cohan, and dates from 1917. It was probably not played by pipe bands, but was very popular in The States.


FWIW, Lilli Marleen and Muß I Denn work well on bagpipes.
__________________
Slainte Leibh/ Slan Leat, Bob Cameron
Klondike Waldo is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 06:10 PM   #5
magsevenband
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Nov 2008
Location: New Jersey USA
Posts: 556
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

Over There fits the scale nicely...starts out E, Low A, D if memory serves.
__________________
"...I think that I will take two small bottles of Dubonnet and gin with me this morning, in case it is needed..."
Queen Elizabeth, The Queen Mother
magsevenband is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-26-2018, 06:36 PM   #6
d303burrous
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2010
Location: Lafayette, Colorado
Posts: 41
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

A big thanks to all of you for your responses. I appreciate it.





Quote:
Originally Posted by Adam Sanderson View Post
I have been at a number of events commemorating the pipers of WW1, many regimental historians were present and we have evidence of which tunes were regularly played in WW1. I have a list here.

It was pretty much as you'd expect from that time;
Cabar Feidh,
Standard on the Braes of Mar,
Campbells are Coming,
March of the Cameron Men,
Gillean nan Fheile,
The Blue Bonnets,
Cock of the North (2 parts only),
Land of the Leal,
Lord Lovat's Lament,
Lochaber No More,
Glendaruel Highlanders, (2 parts only).
Piobaireachd of Donald Dhu

When the Battle is Over comes from another war, Piper of Loos was written after WW1, It's a Long Way to Tipperary might possibly have been busked in the trenches by some random piper, but there's no eyewitness evidence that it ever was. We do know from contemporary written evidence that trench "busking" tunes, (for this purpose, tunes soldiers would sing along to), included Mucking of Geordie's Byre and Bonnie Dundee.

I know nothing about "Over There".

I had never heard of Waltzing Matilda being played on the pipes until I joined this forum. I still have never heard it played on the pipes, to me it seems a very odd tune to play on the GHB, it doesn't fit the scale, and I don't recall seeing or hearing of it being played in WW1. Many Australian Infantry Brigades had a full pipe band, amongst others, but it's estimated 18% of the brigade were actual Scots, with the percentage of Scots in the actual pipe bands being much higher. There were regimental links with Scottish units.

5th Battalion (The Victorian Scottish Regiment) were associated with the Gordon Highlanders, and played Cock of the North, Standard on the Braes of Mar, etc.
16th Battalion (Cameron Highlanders of Western Australia) were associated with the Cameron Highlanders and played March of the Cameron Men, Piobaireachd of Donald Dhu, etc.
27th Battalion (South Australian Scottish Regiment) were associated with the Seaforth Highlanders and played Cabar Feidh, Gillean nan Fheile, etc.
30th Battalion (New South Wales Scottish Regiment) were associated with the Black Watch, and the 41st Battalion (Byron Regiment) were associated with the Argyll & Sutherland Highlanders. All the regiments played the regimental tunes they were associated with. I can find no reference to "Waltzing Matilda" anywhere.

There were a number of tunes published after WW1 that have become associated with WW1, and some of them are crackers.

As most of you know, I work in a museum, and we have a large WW1 commemorative exhibition on at the moment. Roddy MacLeod will be coming in on Remembrance Sunday to play Lament for the Iolaire. This tune was written after WW1, but is entirely appropriate to play as it commemorates an awful tragedy from that time.

In short, if you want to play tunes that were actually played in WW1, the list is above. If you want to play tunes that commemorate WW1, The Piper of Loos would be fine, but I don't get Waltzing Matilda on the pipes.

There's only one well documented WW1 Anzac solo piper, Warrant Officer Archibald Monk, of the 3rd Australian General Hospital. He was not a native Australian, but was a Gaelic speaker from Benbecula, Outer Hebrides. He served with the Cameron Highlanders for many years before emigrating to Australia where he enlisted quite quickly. It's been suggested that he would have played the Cameron regt. standards, Standard on the Braes of Mar, Piobaireachd of Donald Dhu, etc, but we'll never know.

I hope this is of some help.
__________________
David Burrous
One Piper Piping
Lafayette, CO 80026
d303burrous@msn.com
d303burrous is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-29-2018, 07:04 PM   #7
pancelticpiper
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Sep 2005
Location: WV to the OC
Posts: 9,741
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

Waltzing Matilda mostly fits on the GHB, to match the real tune you'd need to play High G sharp in a couple places, and there's a short passage you have to play an octave up.
__________________
proud Mountaineer from the Highlands of West Virginia; Son of the Revolution and Civil War; first European settlers on the Guyandotte
pancelticpiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 05:01 AM   #8
nickt
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jun 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 80
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

Waltzing Matilda mostly fits on the pipes but is not a traditional scots tune. It is likely an English tune if I recall correctly. It is played by some bands but I would think it unlikely that it would have been played widely during WWI.



Piping when I learnt (20 Years ago) was largely traditional in repoitiore. To play something like Waltzing Matilda would have been frowned upon then and I suspect more so 80-90 years before.

As has been hinted at in a previous post a large proportion (around half I believe) of members of the Australian Infantry Force were UK natives and most of the other native born. We certainly had pipe bands in the AIF but many would have been expat Scots.



Nick

Last edited by nickt; 09-30-2018 at 05:04 AM.
nickt is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 07:37 AM   #9
Armorican
Forum Silver Medal
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Europe
Posts: 388
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

Quote:
Originally Posted by nickt View Post
Waltzing Matilda mostly fits on the pipes but is not a traditional scots tune. It is likely an English tune if I recall correctly. It is played by some bands but I would think it unlikely that it would have been played widely during WWI.



Piping when I learnt (20 Years ago) was largely traditional in repoitiore. To play something like Waltzing Matilda would have been frowned upon then and I suspect more so 80-90 years before.

As has been hinted at in a previous post a large proportion (around half I believe) of members of the Australian Infantry Force were UK natives and most of the other native born. We certainly had pipe bands in the AIF but many would have been expat Scots.



Nick
Australian lyrics to a tune written by a Scot.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Waltzing_Matilda
Armorican is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 09-30-2018, 10:30 AM   #10
Heatherbelle
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2007
Location: Ayrshire, Scotland
Posts: 3,777
Default Re: Waltzing Matilda

You could play in the key of D -



ffffee defdbcd a,dfa'a'a'a'a'a'a' def ff ee defdbcd a,dfa'gfeeed


a'a'a'a'f dddcb a,a,a'a'a'a'a'gfe def ffe e defdbcd a,dfa'gfeeed
Heatherbelle is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 11:21 PM.