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Old 03-09-2017, 10:03 PM   #1
piobaire76
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Default Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

Has anyone done any scientific, i.e. measurable, tests on whether rubber sleeves dampen vibrations and lessen harmonics or resonance of drone sound?
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Old 03-09-2017, 10:37 PM   #2
Shawn Husk
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

Not that I'm aware of. It's all anecdotal at this point.
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Old 03-10-2017, 05:09 AM   #3
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

A test would require the same make of bag. I swapped from grommitted Bannatyne hybrid to tied-in Gannaway and the vibrations from the drones resonated through the Gannaway.

However, that may simply have been a difference in material rather than the fact that the drones were tied-in.

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Old 03-10-2017, 05:57 AM   #4
el gaitero
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

It's simply a given.

Know that trick where you rub a wet finger around the top of a wine glass and it rings?????.........Do it...and have someone place their hand on the glass....You'll immediately hear the ringing vibrations get a bit muffled.

This is what happens to a drone stock clamped in a rubber collar.

Whereas if tied into the material of the bag.....a single continuous more resonant/far less dulling medium...the sound producing vibrations are greatly less impacted.

We generally believe and agree different skins or bag materials will provide a slightly different response.

I,...many of us,.....might go on and on about this from a lot of perspectives......
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Old 03-10-2017, 07:29 AM   #5
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

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It's simply a given.

Know that trick where you rub a wet finger around the top of a wine glass and it rings?????.........Do it...and have someone place their hand on the glass....You'll immediately hear the ringing vibrations get a bit muffled.
Not a good analogy.

With a glass, the glass itself is the source of the sound.

With a drone, the source of the sound is the reed, and the vibrating column of air within the bore.

Vibrations of the drone itself can rob -- or amplify -- the vibrations within the bore. I would think that in general, the less vibrations of the drone, the better.
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Old 03-10-2017, 08:39 AM   #6
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

I have always argued that the rubber sleeves used in bags does dampen some of the harmonics. Probably, an almost unnoticeable amount, but still it does.
Because, the stocks are obviously important in the production of tone. You can prove this by tuning your pipes, and then pull one tenor out a bit from the stock not messing with anything else. The pitch will be different, and the tone ever so slightly. Dampening the stock would also have an effect.

How much, I don't know. It would be very difficult to test (not impossible) but I think this conjecture would lead us to a good (admittedly perhaps incorrect) and logical conclusion.
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Old 03-10-2017, 09:05 AM   #7
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

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t

Not a good analogy.

.

... Perhaps a bit esoteric ...think it through to appreciate the contemporaneous allegory.
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Old 03-10-2017, 04:08 PM   #8
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

Another question would be whether any perceived sound effects are heard by only the player or whether they're audible to listeners too.
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:19 AM   #9
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

Can anyone please explain the reasoning that rubber grommets would have a negative impact?

As I see it, when connecting to a bag, you have increased the mass of the drone by the mass of the bag, regardless of method. If you assume that added mass impacts the drone sound, one might expect them to be equal for bags of equal mass. If, on the other hand, one is assuming the rubber acts as a vibration damper/decoupler, then a bag with grommets is adding less mass than a tie-in, which would *increase* harmonics, by way of less vibrating mass.

Rubber isolation dampers are used for low frequency, not the high frequency overtones we are discussing as harmonics.

If the argument centers around resonance within the bag, the attachment method is irrelevant and bag mass and material contribute more.

Perhaps, as mentioned above, you would need to compare the same bag with different attachments, as the mass and flexibility of the bag are likely to have greater impact in the ability to feel the drone vibrations in the bag. Until I see emperical evidence, I can't believe there is an appreciable downside to grommets.

FWIW, my stocks are tied in.
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Old 03-11-2017, 05:35 AM   #10
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Default Re: Tied-in stocks vs. rubber sleeves

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Originally Posted by jackhawkpiper97 View Post
I have always argued that the rubber sleeves used in bags does dampen some of the harmonics. Probably, an almost unnoticeable amount, but still it does.
I suspect it might be like violin bows -- bows that resonate sound worse than bows that don't. The reason is pretty easy to understand -- any energy that goes into making the bow resonate is not going into making the instrument resonate.

If some of the energy from the reed is making the stock resonate, then it's not making the air column resonate, and it's the air column that the audience hears (though it might be possible for the piper to hear the drone body itself, since it's so close to his/her hear relative the bell).
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