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Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

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Old 11-22-2020, 04:53 PM   #11
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

I don't know why I didn't think to mention it, but I think that Ceol Mor sounds much more musical and makes more musical sense when sung.

It's called canntaireachd "chanting".

There's a series of CDs called "Masters of Piobaireachd" where the old masters both sing and play the tunes, and I always like the singing better.
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Old 11-22-2020, 06:16 PM   #12
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

Here's canntaireachd and piping together

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZCHRQuITwWs&t=14s

Here's a pipe band playing Ceol Mor, very effective I think.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7ojD3_QKFTg

Now, what you're missing on the pipes is the theme, the ground, the urlar repeating over and over underneath the variations.

On Gaelic harp, Ceol Mor might have done that: the harpist could have repeated the urlar in the bass notes on one hand, the other hand adding variations with higher notes.

That's how it can be done on pipe organ, in this case the feet playing the theme/ground/urlar a couple dozen times while the hands add the variations above

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVoFLM_BDgs

Here it's more like on the pipes, without the exactly repeating theme underneath, but rather a series of variations in a variety of tempi and metres. Unlike on the pipes where there's a more or less steady increase in tempo and complexity, here slow variations alternate with fast ones.

The title means "madness"

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Oy_EcAYbnY
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Last edited by pancelticpiper; 11-22-2020 at 06:32 PM.
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Old 11-23-2020, 12:56 PM   #13
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

Another thing I'll also add to the discussion thus far:

Piobaireachd, when played well, is attention-grabbing and attention-sustaining. One of the marks (usually) of a piobaireachd performance with room for improvement is that it is boring.

Here's some performances that might pull you into the artform:
-Fields of Gold: SFU
-Lament for the Earl of Antrim: Jack Lee
-Catherine's Lament: Inveraray Pipe Band

The other thing to consider is following along with music in hand while listening. It can help esp. in the early forays into the music.

It's a lot like poetry: it's some people's cup of tea and not others'. I'd argue it's also just as varied as poetry is, but there is a definite x-factor common denominator to it.
Jack
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Old 11-23-2020, 02:49 PM   #14
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

Quote:
Originally Posted by Raibeart View Post
Listening to a lot of it help. It's an acquired taste. ;-)


I'm sure it's a very personal thing and different ones will resonate with different people. For me this modern piobaireachd by Donald MacLeod really drew me in:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FNmXJFPy-f8


The piano and cello accompaniment along with the harmony on pipes brought out the chord structure that opened up the piece for me. It's one of my absolute favourites now. YMMV.... ;-)

I started watching it and thought..."other instruments...not really my thing" but I kept watching it because new pipers kept coming into the scene and harmonies were mixed in. By the end, I was absolutely mesmerized. This was an awesome video, THANK YOU so much for sharing it!


Jenni
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Old 11-23-2020, 05:03 PM   #15
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

Quote:
Originally Posted by burp birl View Post
I started watching it and thought..."other instruments...not really my thing" but I kept watching it because new pipers kept coming into the scene and harmonies were mixed in. By the end, I was absolutely mesmerized. This was an awesome video, THANK YOU so much for sharing it!


Jenni
I liked this piece on their CD....and how the chanters notably sweetened with the efflux of time.
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Old 11-23-2020, 11:12 PM   #16
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

Try this modern take on the musical form -- both the oral and the instrumental traditions are explored: https://www.amazon.com/Seudan/dp/B00...s=music&sr=1-1



-- I think you'll see how it all fits together.



This one was also good for me: https://www.amazon.com/Fhuair-Mi-Pog...s=music&sr=1-1
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Old 11-24-2020, 12:31 PM   #17
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

When talking about alternative arrangements, this one instantly springs to mind:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PdlH...aqpE0&index=10
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Old 11-30-2020, 07:40 AM   #18
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

Another thing to keep in mind is that theme-and-variation pieces have existed in other piping traditions, namely the Northumbrian pipes and the uilleann pipes.

In Irish traditional music you might hear echoes of the old way with some modern players, generally fairly subtle. An air will be played perhaps three times through, the first time presented with only long notes, the repeat adding a few runs here and there, and the third playing adding more runs.

Evidently this was more common, and more fully developed, the further in time one goes back. There are a number of examples of airs presented in this manner in O Neill's Music Of Ireland (published in 1903 but the music collected in the late 19th century).

The issue with O Neill is that most of the airs are only given one time through, the time given sometimes the bare-bones first playing and sometimes a very ornamented version which probably would have been the third (or later) playing.

The Coolin has a performance in full where you can see the Ceol Mor-like presentation most clearly, the variations at differing tempi and level of complexity. Any of the old big Irish-language sean nos airs would have been played that way at the whim of the musician.
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Old Yesterday, 08:09 PM   #19
Pip01
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Default Re: Help me understand Piobaireachd

[QUOTE=Raibeart]

Listening to a lot of it helps. It's an acquired taste. ;-)

QUOTE]



Greetings, briguy, and to All,

Barely being able to properly pronounce this word...
much the less... being able to correctly write it... and
without having to re-re-re--look-it-up... and again... and
again... and again :) ... kindly allow me the following and
very personal observation... about one possible... "Avenue
of Approach."

In these now... Long Times Past... one of the more... and
somewhat "difficult" tunes... for pipers (at least here in
North America) to learn... and to... "have down pat"... was
"The Flowers of the Forest." (And... perhaps... still is?? :)

An important tune... and to be played with great reverence...
but... not running on with the more usual (to most) musical
declensions... that many pipers had internalized... and had
at the ready... in ear and hand... and it gave many... absolute
fits... in their learning of it... :)

And... I... was... and most certainly... no exception!! :)

And... the only thing that saved me... from some great and
blathering lunacy... was sitting down... and with nothing in
my hands... and just... listening to it... and listening to it...
slowly... if that makes any sense... two... three... and possibly
four times a week... until... one day... something... somewhere...
in my brain... went... "click!!"... and I could hum it... and then...
it made sense!!... and from stem to stern!! :)

Now... and of course... I don't know... if this small tale shall be
of any great benefit to you... or any else... "out there"... but it
seemed to me... that this recounting... would do none... any
harm... :)

Wishing You... and Everyone... Good Fortune... in This Quest,

Pip01






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