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Old 05-05-2019, 06:05 AM   #11
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by Neill Mulvie View Post
Why not listen to the Piper In the Nave CD sold by Scotsoun CDs on which Donald is recorded playing the tune?
Fantastic idea! Thank you for informing me!
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Old 05-07-2019, 11:28 AM   #12
teuchter46
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

Having gone back to “Piper in the Nave” the way Donald Macleod plays the four note sequence is medium-short-short-longish...first three notes all quite similar with a wee bit more on note 1, and the last note (low G) having most weight of all. Taa-ta-ta-chumm if that makes any sense.


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Old 05-08-2019, 06:52 AM   #13
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by Barry Shears View Post
Patrick, I used to play the short long short long sequence for these notes (as those in the last phase of tunes like the Sheepwife and Smiths of Chilliechassie, especially in competition, but after hearing older pipers such as Joe Hughie Macintyre and Alex Curie plat these tunes I opted for the long short short long style. Your sound example is close but they put a bit more emphasis on the first note a bit less on the second note and even less on the third note. Nuances of playing for sure.
Just my two cents
Barry
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I was inclined to stay away from SLSL *because* it sounded like Chilliechassie. It didn't seem to fit with this style reel which as Calum pointed out is kinda roundish anyway, whereas Chilliechassie is rather pointed. It seems you observed in Joe and Alex just about/exactly what Bob is describing below from the MacLeod recording.

Were your observations from hearing Joe/Alex play this tune specifically or in general with similar patterns at the end of lines, as pick up into the next phrase?

Quote:
Originally Posted by teuchter46 View Post
Having gone back to “Piper in the Nave” the way Donald Macleod plays the four note sequence is medium-short-short-longish...first three notes all quite similar with a wee bit more on note 1, and the last note (low G) having most weight of all. Taa-ta-ta-chumm if that makes any sense.
I am tickled that my preference is sorta close to what was played in the past! I also look forward to receiving the album from Lallans along with the two Duncan Johnstone albums.

You know what's weird about buying and learning a set of uilleann pipes? It refocused my highland piping on the competitive 4 part stuff.
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Old 05-08-2019, 07:42 AM   #14
Steve Law
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

I don’t know this tune, but feel this thread is in some way related to another (should judges be offered a copy of tunes being played in a competition?).

I was brought up that the written music provides a guide to what the composer intended, but sometimes he didn’t write it exactly as he wished to hear it, whether that was due to limitations in his writing skills or maybe that there are subtleties which are hard to define in writing, or maybe he hadn’t finished punctuating the work before laying it aside (I’m sure there’s room for much debate on all those points but that’s a separate thing, imho).

I was taught that some tunes are always played the same way but other tunes have degrees of flexibility (I was too young to ask why that was so or how one would know which were which, and my dear teacher has long turned to dust).

All of that leads me to believe that it’s perfectly OK to ‘interpret’ the tunes as written and produce music pleasing to the ear. Of course, no interpretation will appeal to every listener, and since many (most?) composers are no longer around to ask it’s hard for me to see how any variation can be said to be ‘wrong’.

It’s art, after all, and if we all played exactly as every tune is written (even allowing that many tunes are written differently in different books) I think the music would be rather mechanical and the world would be a poorer place.

I’ve heard many tunes set in different ways and some I like better than others (I’m equally sure that what I like may not be to everyone’s taste), but I suggest that the ‘best’ way to play a tune is the way it sounds best....and by definition that can depend on the player and on the audience, so is by no means fixed.
It can even change on the circumstances of the performance.

That’s a really longwinded way of saying I don’t think there is a ‘correct’ answer to Patrick’s original question.... I think all 3 variations have merit and one I like more than the other 2, but the only person who could give a definitive answer is the original composer (and I suspect there’s a good chance he might say “it depends” too)...

IMHO, Patrick, your playing is of plenty sufficient calibre that you can safely ignore anyone who criticises a variation you might adopt, (whether he be a judge or another piper) so keep playing whatever pleases you...I enjoy hearing stuff like this and think all kinds have their place and time...makes for interesting debate nonetheless.
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:24 AM   #15
CalumII
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by Patrick McLaurin View Post
I was inclined to stay away from SLSL *because* it sounded like Chilliechassie.

Maybe it's worth mentioning one of Rob Wallace's hobbyhorses, repeated G/D gracenotes. In his Glasgow Collection, and a recent blogpost, he decries the "unpleasant chirping effect" (or something) that these have, in a tune like the Smith or the Sheepwife. He instead prefers some thing like G/D E/D gracenotes (on AAAG or BBBA melody notes).



However, when you actually listen to him play an example, he actually plays GDE, followed by a D gracenote


Is any of this relevant? Again,
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Old 05-09-2019, 11:13 AM   #16
Mac an t-Sealgair
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

I really liked the LSSL, its all preference though. I have read that some composers omit dot cut as its up to the individual piper to decide.

Pipes sound nice too
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Old 05-09-2019, 12:04 PM   #17
Neill Mulvie
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by Steve Law View Post
I don’t know this tune, but feel this thread is in some way related to another (should judges be offered a copy of tunes being played in a competition?).

That’s a really longwinded way of saying I don’t think there is a ‘correct’ answer to Patrick’s original question....

.
Long winded and inaccurate - the original question was:

For those privy to such insight, any idea how Donald MacLeod might have intended the phrasing of the GDED gracenote pattern at the end of every line in "Roderick MacDonald"? In his 6th book, he wrote it completely round.

There is a correct answer evidenced by Donald's CD
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Old 05-09-2019, 04:37 PM   #18
CalumII
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

Neill, I'd be interested to know what you think Donald might have made of this discussion himself.



I often think there was quite a lot in between the lines of what he wrote in the introduction to book 6.
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Old 05-09-2019, 05:02 PM   #19
Patrick McLaurin
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

Book 6 Foreword:

Once again, my thanks to those who have given so freely of their works and to others, for who’s tunes I could find no space in Book Six.
One aspect which may provide food for thought, is the “Strike on ‘D’”. I firmly believe (as do we all) that there is a correct place for each Grace note - hence the two different methods of writing this movement. The student will, of course, make a personal decision in this particular case. I merely write as I play, in no way attempting to influenece others.

Donald MacLeod

I hope it is obvious from my question that I am merely curious as to how Donald would have played the tune so that I can make a more informed decision about how I am going to play the tune.
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Old 05-10-2019, 02:11 AM   #20
Neill Mulvie
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Default Re: GDED gracenote timing in Donald MacLeod's reel: Roderick MacDonald

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Originally Posted by CalumII View Post
Neill, I'd be interested to know what you think Donald might have made of this discussion himself.



I often think there was quite a lot in between the lines of what he wrote in the introduction to book 6.
I don't know but I suspect he may have reflected the comments of Angus MacPhail of Skipnish on one of his band's CDs notes - as far as I remember Angus implied that he couldn't be bothered with over analysing and he just he "just play(s) the bloody music" and he does that wonderfully as did Donald.
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