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Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

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Old 07-29-2018, 02:51 AM   #1
Paul M Burke
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Default Ivory keyboard destroyed

https://www.rte.ie/amp/981737/?__twi...mpression=true



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Old 07-29-2018, 05:07 AM   #2
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

I don't think that article is accurate when it says that the piano was exempt because it was built before 1914.

The time the musical instrument was made doesn't have anything to do with it, does it? Because ivory can be put on an instrument of any age. A restorer can put new ivory rings on an original Baroque flute or new keys on an old piano. How are Customs agents to know what ivory is original and what isn't?

If the law is written like that it's a huge loophole, because we can just get 19th century plain pipes and install real ivory mounts all over them and be legal.
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:28 AM   #3
el gaitero
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

....as long as you have the original receipt...
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Old 07-29-2018, 05:56 AM   #4
PMT
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

I saw this done to a set of pipes when the law first came in. Probably late 1980s. The pipes were sent to an instrument maker who stripped them of ivory, which in turn was destroyed. Over-zealous vandals. If the owner was given a chance to explain the age of the instrument and some proper research done, they would have been sent on I am sure. We haven't heard the last of these types of incidents, and it will now move on to the wood as well. It's lucky China is not a signatory, imagine all that blackwood being destroyed that is destined to be parquetry flooring and furniture!
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Old 07-29-2018, 10:04 AM   #5
moderntraditional
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

What, exactly, does ivory bring to a set of pipes that would justify calling this vandalism?

Absolutely nothing. No tonal quality. Aesthetics? Other options are available.

The previous poster is right: what prevents new ivory from being mounted and imported with an “instrument” loophole? Nothing. Think of all the bat-s*#t crazy things people do to make money - from filtering honey and cutting it with HFC, to using machine oil to cut cooking oil, to mixing nut oil with olive oil, to using lead-based paint on children’s toys.

Gimme a break. This whole ivory thing is a whingey crock of turds. If you have ivory pipes, leave them at home.



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Old 07-30-2018, 09:35 AM   #6
Dan Bell
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

The current laws are a patchwork of unintelligible, haphazardly-enforced, Kafka-esque bureaucracy that does very little to actually suppress the trade in illegal ivory. That last bit is what's important.

If they wanted to make a law that banned the sale, possession, transport, etc. of ivory, full-stop, then fine. Make that law, and enforce it. You're right: all of our old sets can be re-mounted (or consigned to a museum if their historicity warrants it). The reality is that I know of ZERO pipemakers who are creating new sets with poached ivory. You won't find any: a single incident would be the end of a career. In some places, using reclaimed ivory is legal, in others it's not, but in either event, the elephant in question is long dead. For better or worse, a large majority of old sets have at least some ivory on them, and given the conservation status of tonewoods, I don't think we should be banning their possession outright.

What we have now is an uneven system, in which the laws apply differently depending on jurisdiction and the caprice of an enforcing officer. That's ineffective and wasteful. And yes, if you have an ivory set, your best bet is to scrupulously obey the laws: don't try to cross international borders with it without having the correct documentation and following the required procedures to the letter (as best as you can understand them...).
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Old 07-31-2018, 01:02 AM   #7
Paul M Burke
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

Thanks Dan,

That was what I was intending when I posted.

Make sure all your I s are dotted and T s crossed, otherwise one could get into trouble.

Paul.
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Old 07-31-2018, 04:44 AM   #8
el gaitero
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

.....yes...I think filling out all the paperwork correctly is essential so ‘they’ know exactly who has what and where it is ....to facilitate easy collection of the items under the next proclamation that no one should be allowed to possess any ivory/must be destroyed.
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Old 07-31-2018, 07:19 AM   #9
brent
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

Including the elephants! Those evil critters are the primary source of this banned substance, lets get rid of all the elephants! oh.. wait...
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Old 07-31-2018, 09:36 AM   #10
Dan Bell
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Default Re: Ivory keyboard destroyed

Snark aside, the laws are hard to understand an hard to comply with. To cross an international border with an ivory-mounted instrument, you must present a valid CITES document. Obtaining that document requires the ability to offer evidence that your instrument is legally-owned, last changed hands before a specified date, and that its ivory was taken from the wild before various laws were enacted. Once that document is obtained, both the instrument and the paperwork must be inspected at every crossing, which may only be made at specific authorized ports. You are responsible for making sure this happens. Other countries may have other laws, and you need to comply with theirs as well. This applies to personal transportation for non-commercial purposes. Different rules apply to the sale of ivory (in general, international sales into and out of the US are not allowed).

Within the US, different states have different laws regarding the sale, possession, and transportation of ivory.
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