Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > Great Highland Bagpipe > Competing Pipers
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Competing Pipers Questions, issues, or discussions specifically related to Piping and Pipers competition.

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 12-05-2016, 07:46 AM   #1
Pppiper
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 982
Default 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

Hi all,

Ok, another posting in which I'm trying to get a general sense of what is "normal" and accepted; this time relating to an area that's always been rather foreign to me: piobaireachd in competition (though on rare occasion, I think this would occasionally come up in light music).

My first instructor did not teach me to play taorluaths and grips on 'D' with a 'B' gracenote. He had me do them the same for all notes, probably for simplicity sake.

I choose to skip out on piobaireachd in the years following. Now, twenty years later, I'm looking to get my rear in gear and fill in the things I've been passing over for so long.

So here's my question: Is the 'B' gracenote a REQUIREMENT for competition-style playing? Or is it more of a nicety that would gain someone brownie points? Is it EVER acceptable to play taorluaths, grips, crunluaths from 'D' without the 'B' gracenote?

The reason I ask is merely for my own edification. I know a lot of people seem to like it, or hate it. I've heard it described as "silliest gracenote in piping," and jokingly referred to as a long-standing practical joke imposed of the piping community by Iain Maccrimmon.

Fine, but in this particular area, opinions aren't helpful to me. I simply want to know what the judges expect.

Thanks to any and all.
Pppiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 12-05-2016, 08:35 AM   #2
Steve Law
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Nov 2016
Location: Norwich, UK
Posts: 236
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

From my own out of touch viewpoint, having not competed seriously for about 40 years....

I'd expect to lose brownie points for deviating from the music - expression is one thing, but not playing what's written used to earn me rapped knuckles!

I got away with it a few times, making a mistake in the measure but taking care to repeat that mistake in the repeated measure, but occasionally saw what looked distinctly like a raised eyebrow :-)

That said, B is not gracenote I find easy - that's one of my stiff fingers :-)

Just my two penn'orth....
Steve Law is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 09:33 AM   #3
bob864
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 9,348
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

If you play the notes as written in one of the canonical sources then you will never be wrong. If you don't play what's written, then many judges will mark you down.
__________________
bob864 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 09:49 AM   #4
Pppiper
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 982
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

Steve Law:

Thanks for your input. Yeah, I'd daresay the 'B' finger it's a "stiff" finger for everyone. That's partly why I've asked about it.

And I definitely agree on the issue of "deviating from the music."

I can't stress this enough, I'm asking for edification (period). I'm trying to gain conventional knowledge.

I ask because I've heard so many "opinions" against it ... and it's not as if we don't sometimes "deviate" from what's written, based on convention. For example, look at: d-throws (always written as light d-throws, accepted to play heavy), heavy d-strikes (accepted to play either, consistently), and 3note bared runs (played as the first two quick, and hold on the last, rather than all-3 equal) ... all examples of where (at least in some areas) the general consensus deviates from what is written.

Because I've been "out of it" for so long, I'm trying my best to gain more knowledge of what is done according to convention. Much of this will be gained through instruction, but an instructor is one person. I greatly enjoy that this vehicle now exists for us to discuss and gain insight from the community at-large (thank you organizers and admins).

So I just wanted to get a sense of whether there's conventional reason I wasn't taught the "b-gracenote way," or if it was merely a teaching decision based on my being a beginner. It sounds like the latter is the case. I'm betting that I'd have run into the "b-gracenote way" if I had kept up with playing in a competition setting in my youth (the instructor from back then has passed away, God rest him).

I'm looking to put in the work in order to play these movements as needed. I just don't want to unwittingly go through extensive work in honing something that isn't necessary. If the fact of the matter is: "it's just the way it's done" ... that's fine by me, now I know .. and that certainly would qualify as "necessary."

Thank you.

Last edited by Pppiper; 12-05-2016 at 10:02 AM.
Pppiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 09:52 AM   #5
Pppiper
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 982
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

bob864:

Thank you Bob, good point.

My wonderment on the issue stems from the fact that we do often seem to have areas where convention can dictate "accepted" deviations from what's written. I cited some examples in my most recent post below ... just want to get a feel for convention.

Thanks so much! Cheers.
Pppiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 10:02 AM   #6
Aaron Shaw
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Los Angeles, CA USA
Posts: 170
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

Some judges might accept 'd' for 'b' in these movements.

Others won't.

All will accept the 'b'.

Why chance it? I say play as written. Plenty of folks have done so for plenty of years. I'm sure you'll manage it fine!
Aaron Shaw is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 10:06 AM   #7
Pppiper
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 982
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

Aaron Shaw:

"Why chance it?" ... indeed. Thing is, I wanted to know if not doing it WAS "chancing it."

I believe I have my answer. Thanks to you, and to all.

Cheers.
Pppiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 10:10 AM   #8
David
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Haifa, ISRAEL
Posts: 4,351
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

The B finger is not so bad if playing traditional taorluaths and crunluaths off D are learned early on in the great piping adventure--and also a simple piobaireachd. When teachers neglect the old heartland of Highland piping, so too do the students. Many good light music teachers know to send on a pupil to a piobaireachd tutor. but ignore, I hope not.

The B grace can be exercised and brought into reasonable musical use. Lots of slow motion, firm-fingered repetitions!
David is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 10:16 AM   #9
Pppiper
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Dec 2016
Location: Massachusetts, USA
Posts: 982
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

David:

Right on.

Yeah, it would have been cool if I'd learned it twenty years ago. I'm happy with by grips and taorluaths on all notes now, save for one. It's coming along though, so I'm sure I'll get it.

The fault is with me, having removed myself from competition at an early age. I missed out on a lot. Again, I can only speculate, but I feel confident my teacher from back then intended to "come back" to doing D-movements in the conventional fashion.

Should I ever teach in the future, I can assure you that I'll not ignore it.

Cheers, and many thanks.
Pppiper is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 12-05-2016, 10:40 AM   #10
caveal
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Oct 2013
Location: Australia
Posts: 587
Default Re: 'B' gracenote in Piobaireachd embellishments

In lower grade Piobaireachd you'll get away with D where B is written, but upper grades will mark you down. If you want to get ahead from the start, et working on those B gracenotes!
caveal is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 06:23 PM.