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Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

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Old 04-17-2018, 04:12 AM   #1
Sussex Pipes
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Default Same Tune, Different Order of Parts

I have been wondering how widespread the practise was for composers to mix up the parts of a tune and give it another name?
The Edcath Book Vol 1, page 88 has the Peter McLeod strathspey P.M. Hector MacLean, while in the US Bicentennial Collection of Bagpipe Music Vol 2, page 152, the tune appears as P.M. Robert Reid, but said to be composed by P.R.McLeod Junior. In the latter, parts 2 and 4 have been transposed.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.
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Old 04-17-2018, 04:54 AM   #2
Pip01
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Default Re: Same Tune, Different Order of Parts



Hmmm... Sussex Pipes...

With such as this... as with all else... I would think
that Life... is sometimes... just... a Great Jumble !!... :)

And not so much by intent... as just by Happenstance...

Transposition? Transliteration? Transitory memory? :)

Sooo many pitfalls and snares... and the poor sods at
the last and receiving end of it all... left to attempt The
Great Title Untangling... :) ... and not even to mention...
th' bleedin' notes!! (Leaky pen?! :)

Wishing Good Fortune to All, and with... all such, :)
(Because... we're going to need it!! :)
Pip01


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Last edited by Pip01; 04-17-2018 at 05:00 AM.
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:11 AM   #3
phinson
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Default Re: Same Tune, Different Order of Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sussex Pipes View Post
I have been wondering how widespread the practise was for composers to mix up the parts of a tune and give it another name?
The Edcath Book Vol 1, page 88 has the Peter McLeod strathspey P.M. Hector MacLean, while in the US Bicentennial Collection of Bagpipe Music Vol 2, page 152, the tune appears as P.M. Robert Reid, but said to be composed by P.R.McLeod Junior. In the latter, parts 2 and 4 have been transposed.
Any thoughts on this would be appreciated.

Hi Sussex Pipes,


I'd put more faith in the Edcath version than in the US Bicentennial version. Pipe Major Norman Gillies once commented to me that while the US Bicentennial book was good, there were mistakes and that Varella got some of the tune titles wrong.


Paul Hinson
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Old 04-17-2018, 11:31 AM   #4
Klondike Waldo
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Default Re: Same Tune, Different Order of Parts

I was embarrassed once when I realized the "newly-composed" tune I had dedicated to a good friend was an almost-remembered version of one I had composed years earlier.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:53 AM   #5
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Same Tune, Different Order of Parts

As far as tunes by known composers goes, it shouldn't be too difficult to track down the original version.

It's a complex and interesting aspect of traditional Irish music, though.

ITM is generally transferred from player to player without the involvement of written music, and it's common for parts to become switched about within the same tune, and for parts of one tune to become attached to another.

There are many tunes which sound as if they're cobbled together by taking one part from one tune, another part from another tune, and so forth. This probably happens as players mis-remember tunes they've heard and accidentally generate variants which in time evolve and become regarded as independent tunes.

In like manner tune titles freely interchange between tunes, so each tune might be known by several different names, and each tune-name might be attached to several different tunes.

An example of how quickly this process of aural transmission can alter a tune was 20 years ago when The Clumsy Lover became a popular tune in ITM sessions. My idea of the number and order of parts was based on having heard Dickie's pipe band play the tune, and having heard another Grade One band's 4-part version of it. I'd not seen sheet music for it at that time (within a year of its debut).

It was interesting to hear, a year or two after its debut, ITM sessions playing the tune with some of Dickie's parts missing, some new parts appearing, and these existing and new parts in a quite different order.
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Old 04-27-2018, 09:57 AM   #6
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: Same Tune, Different Order of Parts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Klondike Waldo View Post
I was embarrassed once when I realized the "newly-composed" tune I had dedicated to a good friend was an almost-remembered version of one I had composed years earlier.
Composers like John/Johnny Williams and Hans Zimmer reuse material all the time! So don't be embarrassed- it's done by the best in the business.

(Compare Williams' Lost In Space and Jurassic Park themes, and Zimmer's Gladiator and Pirates of the Caribbean themes.)
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