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Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > History, Tradition, Heritage
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History, Tradition, Heritage As related to the subjects of piping, drumming and pipe bands.

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Old 05-14-2015, 02:33 PM   #41
phinson
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Default Re: pipes, kilts, khaki

"Wonder why the pipers in the 6th photo are without sporrans?....anyone?"

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Old 05-14-2015, 03:14 PM   #42
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Default Re: pipes, kilts, khaki

Re: The piper wearing diced balmoral (Page 2, Entry #11, right hand side).

Is this combination of piper and diced balmoral a rarity?
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Old 05-14-2015, 05:17 PM   #43
pancelticpiper
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Default Re: pipes, kilts, khaki

Good eye, I hadn't paid attention to that. I'm sure someone here must know what regiment that was.

About lacking sporrans, photos of the massed Pipes & Drums at the parade celebrating VE Day show all the pipers like that. It seems to have been common in both World Wars.

In WWI oftentimes aprons were worn, and oftentimes canvas gas mask bags would be used as ad-hoc sporrans, like this



Here are Canadian Pipe Majors in London, 1940



Here's something I've rarely seen, wearing dirks with otherwise plain Service Dress, Aldershot 1939



One piper and a load of bayonets



Seaforth Highlanders of Canada, a bearded Pipe Major. Note the piper trade badges worn high & low.

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Old 05-15-2015, 07:07 AM   #44
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Default Re: pipes, kilts, khaki

Regarding service dress and dirks, here is the 15th Battalion CEF marching from the battlefield of Hill 70 on August 16th,1917 with dirks. I am the proud owner of the dirk belonging to George Christie Henderson, third row, second from right.

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Old 05-15-2015, 05:59 PM   #45
pancelticpiper
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Since Full Dress was withdrawn, in 1914, one sees the Service Dress jacket worn will all the old Full Dress accoutrements except for the plaid and plaid brooch: crossbelt, waistbelt, dirk, horsehair sporran, diced/tartan hosetops, spats.

But also the same Service Dress jacket is often worn with plain stuff: web waistbelt, no sporran, plain hose, puttees.

Then one sees various mixes, like all the plain stuff but the Full Dress waistbelt (with or without dirk), or all plain but diced/tartan hosetops worn with puttees, etc.

The surprising thing about that WWII photo I referenced above is that they're wearing puttees and no sporrans, yet wearing dirks.

In the VE Victory Parade photos the pipers of the Highland Division have no sporrans, and no waistbelts at all. This was fairly common with the Battledress jacket, which had a self-belt sort of thing. I can't recall seeing a photo of a crossbelt being worn with the Battledress jacket, though the Full Dress black leather waistbelt with silver buckle would sometimes be worn.
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Old 05-15-2015, 07:45 PM   #46
el gaitero
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Default Re: pipes, kilts, khaki

Quote:
Originally Posted by pancelticpiper View Post
Since Full Dress was withdrawn, in 1914, one sees the Service Dress jacket worn will all the old Full Dress accoutrements except for the plaid and plaid brooch: crossbelt, waistbelt, dirk, horsehair sporran, diced/tartan hosetops, spats.

But also the same Service Dress jacket is often worn with plain stuff: web waistbelt, no sporran, plain hose, puttees.

Then one sees various mixes, like all the plain stuff but the Full Dress waistbelt (with or without dirk), or all plain but diced/tartan hosetops worn with puttees, etc.

The surprising thing about that WWII photo I referenced above is that they're wearing puttees and no sporrans, yet wearing dirks.

In the VE Victory Parade photos the pipers of the Highland Division have no sporrans, and no waistbelts at all. This was fairly common with the Battledress jacket, which had a self-belt sort of thing. I can't recall seeing a photo of a crossbelt being worn with the Battledress jacket, though the Full Dress black leather waistbelt with silver buckle would sometimes be worn.
I'd wager many of the non-reg kit seen during war time parades following an invasion/takeover might be due to combining groups who do not all have the same 'stuff' handy....so the pm dressed them all to the least common denominator... E.g . " Right chaps...ditch the sporrans.."
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Old 05-16-2015, 10:31 AM   #47
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Default Re: pipes, kilts, khaki

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I'm amazed at how far forward the flashes are in this picture!
Thie piper leading in the photo is pipe major john Mc nichole black watch..i have blown these pipes many times.
Alas john had cancer later in life ..

Last edited by ironron; 05-16-2015 at 10:34 AM.
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Old 05-17-2015, 05:56 PM   #48
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Originally Posted by el gaitero View Post
I'd wager many of the... kit seen during war time parades... might be due to combining groups who do not all have the same 'stuff' handy....so the pm dressed them all to the least common denominator...
That's probably true.

The kit varied from unit to unit and from time to time within the same unit. I think it's in the Instrument Of War series where they interviewed a veteran who expressed surprise at the amount of kit that the massed pipes & drums of The Highland Division had at one wartime parade; where did the glengarries and horsehair sporrans suddenly come from? And how they had "even more kit" at a later parade.

Yet, the 1945 Victory Parade of the Highland Division shows quite plain kit: puttees, tams, no sporrans, no belts.
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Old 05-17-2015, 06:05 PM   #49
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I'm amazed at how far forward the flashes are in this picture!
Yes that varied from regiment to regiment. The Black Watch and the Argylls wore the front edge of the front flash at the centre line of the front of the leg; the Camerons and Gordons wore the flashes further back, basically at the 2 o'clock and 10 o'clock positions.
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Old 05-21-2015, 04:27 AM   #50
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Default Re: pipes, kilts, khaki

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Originally Posted by ironron View Post
Thie piper leading in the photo is pipe major john Mc nichole black watch..i have blown these pipes many times.
Alas john had cancer later in life ..
ironron,
Are you referring to P/M John McNicol, BEM (born 1913, died 1988)? He was P/M 2nd Bn Black Watch 1941-1948 and 1st Bn 1955-1959.
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