Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > Beer Tent
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 11-24-2009, 08:12 AM   #21
Aon Piobaire
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 535
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by va_drummer View Post
Agreed. Does anyone know why the MAP is "strongly recommended"? ...not just 'recommended' or 'highly recommended', but "strongly recommended".

What might a band expect in 2010 that doesn't go along with the MAP list? Anyone have experience with this?
I've purposely kept my mouth shut about this (wisely), but can't help it now. I just went from the WUSPBA to the EUSPBA due to relocation and am confused as well. I'm sure it will get cleared up but I do want to add a comment. Is it just me or are those fairly boring 2/4's? Why were these tunes selected and recommended? Why limit anyone to these (yawn) tunes?
__________________
.../
O///
[ ]
/-\
11

Tha ceol sna maidean, ma bheir thus as e.
Aon Piobaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 11-24-2009, 08:21 AM   #22
Paul Wood
Forum Silver Medal
 
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: NJ
Posts: 372
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

I'm sorry but I don't understand the confusion.

Play 6 or 8 parts of common time marches. Play 2, three paced rolls. Don't play a reprise or anything not traditional. There is a list of tunes that are recommended for the grade. Play them or don't.

How is this confusing?
__________________
Paul

Peace Through Victory
Paul Wood is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 08:26 AM   #23
Eastcoaster
Forum Member
 
Join Date: Jan 2009
Location: USA
Posts: 65
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

To me it seems as though the Exec board listened to what people were saying and sort of in a sense got rid of the stringent requirements. You can play what what you want with in certain limits. Pick you own tunes though!
Eastcoaster is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 09:42 AM   #24
Claxon
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Aug 2004
Location: South Jersey
Posts: 697
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Eastcoaster View Post
To me it seems as though the Exec board listened to what people were saying and sort of in a sense got rid of the stringent requirements. You can play what what you want with in certain limits. Pick you own tunes though!
Which makes a lot of sense, especially for Gr5 bands. Let them play what they already play well and get their feet wet if they choose. It's the way to get more street bands to come out to a competition here and there, and with any luck, get attendance at games up to boot.
Claxon is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 09:45 AM   #25
bob864
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: South Carolina
Posts: 9,375
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aon Piobaire View Post
I've purposely kept my mouth shut about this (wisely), but can't help it now. I just went from the WUSPBA to the EUSPBA due to relocation and am confused as well. I'm sure it will get cleared up but I do want to add a comment. Is it just me or are those fairly boring 2/4's? Why were these tunes selected and recommended? Why limit anyone to these (yawn) tunes?
I don't think any of them are as boring as Battle's O'er, which we play fairly regularly for real audiences (it's a massed bands tune).

I can't comment on motivation, but I can speak to results:

1) Our band (as no doubt many others) spent a fair bit of time learning to play 2/4 marches at competition standard. Not a bad thing!

2) Since the list was fairly short, there were other bands playing some of the same tunes we were playing. This allowed us to compare our performance to others in a fairly straightforward way.

3) Also, since the list was fairly short, I now have more tunes in common with more pipers from other bands. While I don't frequently play with pipers form other bands, it will be nice to have tunes other than massed bands (and parade) tunes to be able to play!

4) None of the bands I've had the priveledge of hearing seems to have achieved a level of real mastery with these tunes. I'm glad we weren't all trying to play tunes you'd find exciting...
__________________
bob864 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 10:19 AM   #26
J Mark Ferguson
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2004
Location: Norge, VA
Posts: 59
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

The tune list is based on the pre-existing one the RSPBA has for their version of MAP.
J Mark Ferguson is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 10:41 AM   #27
LisaB
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: NW Mississippi
Posts: 760
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob864 View Post
4) None of the bands I've had the priveledge of hearing seems to have achieved a level of real mastery with these tunes.
I think you've hit the nail on the head, here, as to the purpose of the whole thing.
__________________
Lisa

If you have noticed this notice you will have noticed that this notice is not worth noticing.

LisaB is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 11:10 AM   #28
Steven Giles
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Oct 2003
Location: Birmingham, AL
Posts: 299
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Aon Piobaire View Post
Is it just me or are those fairly boring 2/4's? Why were these tunes selected and recommended? Why limit anyone to these (yawn) tunes?

I think this is a valid question. My understanding of these 2/4 march requirements was to "allow" or maybe a better word would be to "teach" grade IV bands to play 2/4 marches with the right expression, lift, and swing to better prepare them for their future as possible grade 3 bands and beyond. Many folks i have listened to seemed to have mixed feelings about these requirments. I, on the other hand, thought it somewhat of a relief. It in essence forced bands to play a 2/4 march selection rather than a mix of 4/4,3/4,6/8 etc. I think the RSPBA termed the way they would have liked their 2/4 MAP tunes played as "spirited and lively"...and i think this is also the purpose behind the EUSPBA's PBIP scheme. Many times, in lower grade bands we hear what we think of as "round" playing...often times decent technical playing but with little or no emphasis on good solid phrasing. This, i think, along with the good technical playing has to be taught from the bottom up. e.g. Grade, 5, 4, 3 etc.
The programme could be a good thing if managed right. Firstly, there are a good many grade 4 and 5 bands that just dont have leadership with good foundational march playing backgrounds. This is a challenge. To counter this and achieve the results i think that a good instructional programme on proper march playing should be made as easily attainable as posssible. Maybe on a branch-by-branch basis where pipe majors or whomever would like could come for a weekend of good solid teaching on how to properly play and phrase the marches.

Secondly, i think that limiting what can be played in competition serves as a guidline for lower grade bands who sometimes (unknowlingly) play above their means. What i am trying to say is that given time it should (theoretically) even the playing field to an extent and allow bands to progress and be promoted in a fashion based on judging things that are fundamental and rudimentary to lower grade bands - good solid march playing.

Once bands have come to master the very basics, moving up, improving and being competetive in every grade to which they progress to should be much more achievable.

Just my thoughts,
Thanks,
Steven
__________________
Steven H. Giles
Steven Giles is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 11:27 AM   #29
Aon Piobaire
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 535
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by bob864 View Post
I don't think any of them are as boring as Battle's O'er, which we play fairly regularly for real audiences (it's a massed bands tune).


I can't comment on motivation, but I can speak to results:

1) Our band (as no doubt many others) spent a fair bit of time learning to play 2/4 marches at competition standard. Not a bad thing!

2) Since the list was fairly short, there were other bands playing some of the same tunes we were playing. This allowed us to compare our performance to others in a fairly straightforward way.

3) Also, since the list was fairly short, I now have more tunes in common with more pipers from other bands. While I don't frequently play with pipers form other bands, it will be nice to have tunes other than massed bands (and parade) tunes to be able to play!

4) None of the bands I've had the priveledge of hearing seems to have achieved a level of real mastery with these tunes. I'm glad we weren't all trying to play tunes you'd find exciting...
When the Battle's O'er is not a 2/4 march. A lot of the listed 2/4's are about as boring though.

1. Was your band not playing 2/4's before now? Did the list generate your band's playing of 2/4's? If not, what's your point?

2. There's going to be bands playing some tunes you guys do no matter what the format. What does that have to do with boring tunes?

3. As far as common tunes, you could make that statement of any commonly played tunes (other than massed bands) could you not?

4. Who mentioned mastery? An exciting tune does not indicate that it's difficult. A very boring tune can be difficult. I'm glad we weren't all settling for the tunes you seem to be happy with.
__________________
.../
O///
[ ]
/-\
11

Tha ceol sna maidean, ma bheir thus as e.
Aon Piobaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 11-24-2009, 11:42 AM   #30
Aon Piobaire
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Jan 2007
Location: Arlington, TX
Posts: 535
Default Re: Any "OFFICIAL" word on EUSPBA MAP for 2010?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Steven Giles View Post
I think this is a valid question. My understanding of these 2/4 march requirements was to "allow" or maybe a better word would be to "teach" grade IV bands to play 2/4 marches with the right expression, lift, and swing to better prepare them for their future as possible grade 3 bands and beyond. Many folks i have listened to seemed to have mixed feelings about these requirments. I, on the other hand, thought it somewhat of a relief. It in essence forced bands to play a 2/4 march selection rather than a mix of 4/4,3/4,6/8 etc. I think the RSPBA termed the way they would have liked their 2/4 MAP tunes played as "spirited and lively"...and i think this is also the purpose behind the EUSPBA's PBIP scheme. Many times, in lower grade bands we hear what we think of as "round" playing...often times decent technical playing but with little or no emphasis on good solid phrasing. This, i think, along with the good technical playing has to be taught from the bottom up. e.g. Grade, 5, 4, 3 etc.
The programme could be a good thing if managed right. Firstly, there are a good many grade 4 and 5 bands that just dont have leadership with good foundational march playing backgrounds. This is a challenge. To counter this and achieve the results i think that a good instructional programme on proper march playing should be made as easily attainable as posssible. Maybe on a branch-by-branch basis where pipe majors or whomever would like could come for a weekend of good solid teaching on how to properly play and phrase the marches.

Secondly, i think that limiting what can be played in competition serves as a guidline for lower grade bands who sometimes (unknowlingly) play above their means. What i am trying to say is that given time it should (theoretically) even the playing field to an extent and allow bands to progress and be promoted in a fashion based on judging things that are fundamental and rudimentary to lower grade bands - good solid march playing.

Once bands have come to master the very basics, moving up, improving and being competetive in every grade to which they progress to should be much more achievable.

Just my thoughts,
Thanks,
Steven
Thanks Steven. That's more what I was looking for. I take your points, especially about Grade 4 or 5 bands attempting to play above their grade. I guess the purpose is as you stated, to build march fundamentals from some starting point.
I still would wish for 2/4 marches that aren't straight out of the Logan's Tutor. There are some pretty fun/exciting 2/4's that could be added and considered to be Grade 4. I personally do like "the Men of Argyll" and am glad to see it on the list.
Oh well, you know what they say about opinions...mine is no different, just voiced.
__________________
.../
O///
[ ]
/-\
11

Tha ceol sna maidean, ma bheir thus as e.
Aon Piobaire is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:31 PM.