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Beer Tent The general discussion forum, and the place to start a new "beer-tent-like" Piping Related discussion...

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Old 08-30-2010, 09:43 AM   #61
Armorican
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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Originally Posted by Reid_ View Post
I know the grandstands were sold out last year. I don't know if they were this year or not but there were far from empty.

It was a record year for bands coming to the World's. The numbers wasn't just an issue for grade one.
Look at the BBC footage of the qualifiers.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/worlds/2010/bands/

The stands are almost empty.
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Old 08-30-2010, 10:42 AM   #62
Reid_
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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Originally Posted by Armorican View Post
Look at the BBC footage of the qualifiers.


http://www.bbc.co.uk/music/worlds/2010/bands/

The stands are almost empty.
My mistake, I though you were talking about the final. If you buy tickets to the grandstand it covers the qualifier as well as the final, so tickets sales were great this year as well as last year.
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Last edited by Reid_; 08-30-2010 at 10:44 AM. Reason: had to add more info.
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:52 AM   #63
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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Okay, what if the RSPBA took a look at results from bands home associations and determined if they should be demoted?
But it's rarely the same performance standard on home turf as it is when every band flies in the cream of the crop...and I think this would only hurt local promoters...given that bands that operate with large overseas contingents just won't turn up and play in their home associations
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Old 08-31-2010, 01:55 AM   #64
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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...Strange that someone would say it is better to come in last in grade one than first in grade 2. I suspect the top few grade 2's would beat up on the bottom grade 1's that really should demote themselves to be in the proper grade IMHO.
Why Strange?

Out of interest...where would you draw the line of a grade 1, and a grade 2 performance? (someone has to come last in the grade)
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:21 AM   #65
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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Why Strange?

Out of interest...where would you draw the line of a grade 1, and a grade 2 performance? (someone has to come last in the grade)
Why stay in a grade that a band has no business being in? Just to be able to say, we are a grade one band? Maybe it is evident to bands that do this, that it would take an amazing amount of work to get back up to a grade one standard, so they stay in grade one. Seems the standards are very high these days. How many times should a band be allowed to stay in any grade if they are consistently in the bottom few year after year? Do you just let that happen, or do you step in as an organization and say, it is time you move down to a proper grade. I don't know the answer, but was interested in what others thought about bands staying in grades they have no chance of being in the top 3/4 at the Worlds year after year? If you win grade 2 in the 1990's does that mean you are able to stay in grade one for life? I don't know how this works?
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Old 08-31-2010, 04:24 AM   #66
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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Why Strange?

Out of interest...where would you draw the line of a grade 1, and a grade 2 performance? (someone has to come last in the grade)
In Brittany, until 2009, the grades for the second of two Bagad championship contests each year were reworked.

Only those that finished in the top half of G1 went on to compete for the title. The bottom half of G1 (1B) and the top half of G2 (2A) competed against each other, then 2B + 3A, etc.

There were problems with this system which lead to it being scrapped this year, but it certainly threw up some "interesting" results.
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:07 AM   #67
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

The thing about this whole debate that always makes me laugh is that many people deride the whole grade V grade. In actuality the RSPBA already has 6 grades. Call it IVB or call if V...what the Hell is the difference? Ok the requirement for what needs to be played is the same in GIVA and IVB but other than that, IVB is the intro grade and there is a clear difference in the quality of the bands from A to B...also evident in the Grade III A and B. Now there are people that want to further divide it up in the GI...why not GII also? Make IIA and IIB as well...why leave GII as the only grade not divided.

Bottom line in my opinion is that if all bands need to compete exactly the same...in other words play a qualifier in the morning and then play in the final if you make it through the qualifier...if all GI bands do this, my opinion is that you will see some new faces in the top 6. Play in the morning...sweat it out like everyone else until the results come in...let your instruments take a beating in the rain and the heat and the combination of the two and the playing field will be leveled out a bit.

This isn't saying that there will not be some of the same faces up there in the top 6 as there always will be a cream of the crop but it will level it a bit I think. And also in my opinion, this is why the RSPBA has the deck stacked against the overseas bands. Most of the pre-qualified bands will always be RSPBA bands...with one or two overseas bands thrown in...
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Old 08-31-2010, 09:19 AM   #68
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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Bottom line in my opinion is that if all bands need to compete exactly the same...in other words play a qualifier in the morning and then play in the final if you make it through the qualifier...if all GI bands do this, my opinion is that you will see some new faces in the top 6. Play in the morning...sweat it out like everyone else until the results come in...let your instruments take a beating in the rain and the heat and the combination of the two and the playing field will be leveled out a bit.

This isn't saying that there will not be some of the same faces up there in the top 6 as there always will be a cream of the crop but it will level it a bit I think. And also in my opinion, this is why the RSPBA has the deck stacked against the overseas bands. Most of the pre-qualified bands will always be RSPBA bands...with one or two overseas bands thrown in...
I remember in an interview a few years back Richard Parkes said he wouldn't be opposed to all bands competing in the qualifier.
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Old 08-31-2010, 10:53 AM   #69
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Default Re: Grade 1A & Grade 1B...

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Why stay in a grade that a band has no business being in? Just to be able to say, we are a grade one band?
These grade one bands that are placing in the bottom half of the grade are still deemed to be above a grade two standard. Bands aren't up/downgraded based solely on contest results. If a band consistently places very low in grade one, then they'll likely be downgraded. However, if they're still deemed to be playing at above a grade two level... then they'll be left in Grade 1.
We're talking as though there's very little gap between the top of grade 2 and the bottom of grade 1, but there is. If the bottom 6 gd 1 bands at the Worlds this year played in grade 2, they likely would've been 6 of the top 8 bands in that grade (if not the top 6).

Bands are graded in their home associations. We keep talking as though the World Championships is the be all and end all for grade one bands, but it's only one of many games they attend every year. (Granted, it's a biggie).
The point is, though, it seems we're saying that if a band doesn't qualify at the Worlds, they should go back to their home associations and immediately be downgraded. That doesn't make sense to me. Every grade is going to have bands at the top, bands at the bottom and bands that could cross over, up or down. Downgrading bands because of their result at the Worlds would throw off the balance of things locally. They deserve to be where they are, and they've earned it.

Remember, a grade one band that places 13th today is still 10x better than the band that finished 13th in grade one 20 years ago.

That standard has increased because bands work hard towards their goals and are determined to improve. Inventing new grades so that more bands have a chance to win something... at the end of the day, it doesn't follow this pattern.

20 years ago there was no such thing as grade 5 (at least not in most parts of the world). Grade 5 was invented because, while most grade 4 bands were raising their standard, some weren't. Those that weren't were rewarded with their very own new grade. I never understood the point of it, personally. It doesn't seem progressive to me.

Again, there's a lot of talk about grade 1A and 1B, but none of it from members of grade one bands. Why? Because people who are successful are successful because they've learned to compete against their own expectations of themselves. As bands above them get better, they push themselves harder and make themselves better. Whether they catch up or not, isn't the point.

-Ryan
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