Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.

Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > Read Only Archive > Beer Tent Archive
Register FAQ Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Beer Tent Archive Old threads from the Beer Tent Forum.

Platinum Sponsors
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Old 02-19-2007, 10:25 AM   #1
Chris Gallant
Forum Regular
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Fredericton, New Brunswick
Posts: 112
Default Proposed Changes

Dunsire Readers,

Just wondering what the views are on the RSPBA's proposed changes to the Medley competition at the Worlds?


P.S.- If you don't know what I am talking about, check out the story on P|D.
Chris Gallant
Chris Gallant is offline  
Gold Sponsor
Old 02-19-2007, 10:36 AM   #2
Forum Regular
Join Date: Dec 2006
Location: Airth, in between Falkirk and Stirling, Scotland
Posts: 231
Default Re: Proposed Changes

(...) Potential changes to rules include the elimination of three-paced rolls as being mandatory, (...) bands would be allowed to compete in any format they like, rather than the traditional circle.
okay.. for a start.. They cannot get rid of the three pace rolls, these are what EVERYONE recognises a pipe band by, its what defines the pipebands start from say a fife and drum bands start, and it has been since the start of pipe bands, they would be defying the history if they did this. Also, if we were to start marching in in any formation, why not call it the World Pipe Band Tattoo?? the point of a compition is that we all are the same, but we compete to different standards, if we get rid of the circle formation every band will be different! IMHO the RSPBA should not bow down to the BBC!

Just my opinion

Robbie.Crow is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 11:16 AM   #3
Kevin F. Gilstrap
Holy smoking keyboard!
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: Kansas City, MO
Posts: 2,414
Default Re: Proposed Changes

Originally posted by Robbie.Crow:
<div class="ubbcode-block"><div class="ubbcode-header">Quote:</div><div class="ubbcode-body"> (...) Potential changes to rules include the elimination of three-paced rolls as being mandatory, (...) bands would be allowed to compete in any format they like, rather than the traditional circle.
okay.. for a start.. They <span style="font-weight: bold">cannot get rid of the three pace rolls, these are what EVERYONE recognises a pipe band by, </span></div></div>Really, I think it's a great idea! I've had the good fortune of playing with bands that did some very interesting substitutes to 3P rolls and it was a complete breath of fresh air, really!
Kansas City Celtic Pipes & Drums
Kevin F. Gilstrap is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 11:28 AM   #4
the fishiologist
Forum Clasp
Join Date: Mar 2003
Location: Telkwa, BC
Posts: 710
Default Re: Proposed Changes

well, the idea of some changes to the format is intriguing, but as the "one grade-1 band member" so aptly put it in the article, these changes are being proposed for entirely the wrong reason. I mean come on, "because the BBC wants it"? I think there needs to be a bit more thought put into this. How will the judging change? Will there be an "artistic merit" judge? Will other instruments be introduced? How about changing formations a la American marching bands? Will this turn the worlds into a bagpipe circus?? (playing the devil's advocate with that last point btw..)

Interesting concept, but it all seems a little forced - as in, the "reply now or we assume you agree" stance.. This would be a good time to have a world-wide bagpipe tele-conference, along with a proposal for a 1 or 2-year pilot project, before any changes to the official format are brought into play.
"if you let go of it, maybe it will stop screaming"
the fishiologist is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 11:37 AM   #5
Iain Sherwood
Holy smoking keyboard!
Join Date: Nov 2001
Location: East Bayland
Posts: 7,146
Default Re: Proposed Changes

Sounds like it's poorly thought out. If the Beeb wants more diversity it should consider interspersing scenes of bands in concert pre/post Worlds or other competitions that season.

For the RSPBA to cringe in front of a media giant which offers NO recompense to performers is pretty crass, considering how many times they've refused changes proposed by bands themselves.
Iain Sherwood is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 12:00 PM   #6
Forum Silver Medal
Join Date: Aug 2002
Location: east coast USA
Posts: 441
Default Re: Proposed Changes

It's about time to make the bloody 3-pace rolls optional. Yeah it's traditional, but today's pipe band drummers can come up with some pretty creative things (musically creative). Not to say we get rid of the 3-pace rolls, but optional can only be good!
crunluathman is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 12:16 PM   #7
Kenton Adler
Holy smoking keyboard!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Batesville Arkansas
Posts: 1,691
Default Re: Proposed Changes

MSR is the "traditional" contest. Leave that completely alone. Selection Medley is a newer invention though, and I would have no problem seeing that made a little more entertaining by allowing a band to play something other than a marching tune as their opener if they like. And I also like playing in a concert "V formation at times, or some formation other than a circle, so I could see where that might be appealing as well. Especially considering a television audience. And if BBC wants to put up some major money and spread the appeal of piping and bands to a wider audience, why not at least compromise here and there?

That said, standing in that circle does have a particular effect on sound that would change if formations changed.

I definitely do not want to see pipe bands going the way of high school or college marching bands. But, Drum Corp International gets a lot more audience over here than any pipe band I know of anywhere, and part of their appeal is their showmanship. We could take a few lessons from them.
Kenton Adler

For best results - PLAY LOUD
Kenton Adler is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 12:18 PM   #8
Funkee Munkee
Holy smoking keyboard!
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: In the jungle, baby
Posts: 2,547
Default Re: Proposed Changes

Originally posted by Kenton Adler:
We could take a lesson from them in a lot of ways.
Funkee Munkee is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 12:37 PM   #9
Forum Member
Join Date: Aug 2005
Location: motherwell, scotland
Posts: 34
Default Re: Proposed Changes

all i can say is that its been a long time coming, and i dont care wether its for the wrong reasons or not.
there IS guys with the savvy and knowledge in the RSPBA who can make this a possibility, ie Bob Shepherd and Alistair Aitken but to name two, guys who have been trying to develop and encourage a growth and development in our art.they can make it happen
in the past it was said by some people, great people at that (Seamus McNeil for example), that the music we all so much love like Gordon Duncan, mark Saul etc was not what piping was about, but its sad to say, that even though lots of this new music has been adopted by the pipe bands, the same snobbery and pretentiousness that plagued the pre-modern era in piping, is going to once again hinder any more progress. why the hell are 3 pace rolls important, why start on a quick march, why stand in a circle, why must all pipers sound at once??

we have the msr, and i for one think this is the measure of pipe bands, demonstrating technique, tone, etc etc
the medley is about the music, and presentation,tunes nowadays are far to bagpipe/pipe band standardised, each and every tune you'll hear are derivatives of a tune someone else played the year before. thats not to say the guys who are composing these arent talented, its just theyre not been given a very big scope to use their skills to the max, the rspba at present is putting paid to any orginal music being composed or played, cause most composers would love their tunes on the worlds CD's, so they have to conform!! musicality seems to be a buzz word these days, and i think the majority of people who bandy it about have no real concept of what it means and encompasses, as how the hell can u expect to create a truly musical piece from start to finish when there are so many boundaries and limitations that the current format places upon us!

there isnt anything that top bands and top players dont know about there instrument.it seems hard to beleive that the current standard could be bettered.

but its what these people dont know about OTHER instruments - the theories and concepts which make those art forms popular. it is the learning and adapting of those to our art, which will help us progress. i confidentally will say that if these changes dont happen now, then they will still happen. the younger generation of pipers and drummers - at high school and on courses such as RSAMD etc are being chooled on dealing with music for musics sake and are soaking up all sorts of knowledge and ideas from every genre. its not that long ago that im sure some one who could play a note or two on another instrument was probably hailed as a genius, these young guys and girls and multi virtuoso instrumentalists, playing 3,4,5 and more instruments! it'll have to happen at some point, because these youngsters are not only the future but the way forward. its ther only way for pipes and pipe bands to be treated as genuine music, instead of novelty.

there is a space for traditiional piping,yes, but ultimately there is a growing platform and more importantly NEED for the music to develop.

this post has been building up inside me for ages, and while i know im not exactly precise in my wording or explanation, i hope the sentiment and gist comes over.

i apologise if its just drivel to you!
success is a journey, not a destination
longbawhughy is offline  
Old 02-19-2007, 02:51 PM   #10
Kenton Adler
Holy smoking keyboard!
Join Date: Dec 2001
Location: Batesville Arkansas
Posts: 1,691
Default Re: Proposed Changes

Some interesting observations there hughy (is the longbaw to do with archery, or the hard cider? I like both).

When talking about all-important ensemble, the first thing I say to people is, "If you want to hear ensemble, listen to The Benny Goodman Orchestra playing One O'Clock Jump. THAT'S ensemble". Now, let's apply those same principles to pipe band instrumentation. I grew up playing guitar in rock bands. It's amazing what one guitar, a bass player and a musical drummer with a big enough kit can do to fill a room with interesting music. WAY more going on with a bunch of pipers, sides, bass, and the tenors who are making mid-sections such an important part of things overall. We could do even more amazing stuff than what has been done to date, and some of that has been fantastic.

I've long argued that our presentation leaves MUCH to be desired from the audience stand-point too. What other type of musical presentation do you ever go to where the band stands with its back to you? I like the traditions of piping, and the uniqueness of our art, but some stuff is just way overdue for a little bit of updating. 78th Frasers, SFU, FMM, and others see it and have moved that direction for their shows. The medley portion or competitions could be well-served by some fresh thinking as well.

And leave the MSR alone for the purist aspect.

Kenton Adler

For best results - PLAY LOUD
Kenton Adler is offline  
Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off

Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 12:45 PM.