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Technique & Instrument Related to techniques, to the instrument, to the components, to maintenance.

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Old 10-11-2018, 08:11 AM   #21
Doug Walton
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley G View Post
When one considers the humidity of one's breath, you start to realise that a fool and his money are easily parted.


Sounds like The Emperor's New Clothes by a different name.
I'm sure I'll regret it, but maybe you can elaborate on this?
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Old 10-11-2018, 08:48 AM   #22
el gaitero
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

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Originally Posted by Doug Walton View Post

I'm sure I'll regret it, but maybe you can elaborate on this?
I think he’s saying ...playing the instrument for a bit will bring it back to life nicely,assuming the piper knows the craft and his instrument. Maybe not for a Worlds stage granted , and certainly not immediately like some imply their pipes are always ready to and do ‘go’ immediately using gadgets.
With experience I have accumulated a drawerful. Younger are still in various acquisition stages.
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:05 AM   #23
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

What do oboe players do?



-Matthew
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:10 AM   #24
Jim Fogelman
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

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What do oboe players do?



-Matthew
Soak their reeds in a small container of water for several minutes before playing. When they have extended rests, they take their reeds out and continue soaking them. Many store their reeds in a humidity controlled reed case.
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Old 10-11-2018, 11:48 AM   #25
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

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Originally Posted by 3D Piper View Post
What do oboe players do?
-Matthew
…they keep their reeds wet, but the, oboe and bassoon reeds are intended to be played wet and, being held as they are between the players lips while playing, can be adjusted for pitch by slight adjustments of embouchure/pressure.
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Old 10-11-2018, 02:33 PM   #26
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

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Originally Posted by Klondike Waldo View Post
…they keep their reeds wet, but then, oboe and bassoon reeds are intended to be played wet and, being held as they are between the players lips while playing, can be adjusted for pitch by slight adjustments of embouchure/pressure.
edited "but then" rather than "but the"
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Old 10-11-2018, 03:29 PM   #27
Harley G
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

Gadgets make punters money, ya the capitalist system.



The mere assertion, in the absence of any evidence is merely an assertion.


The crystal manufacturer does not support the assertion that static silica crystals will actively control humidity. They have a system but it has a powered heat and ventilation system.


When your reed is at playing state it is not 87% RH. Dr Google will clear this issue up.


Between performances with our oboes, bassoons, clarinets and saxophones we generally do nothing more than wet the reed again before restarting. Some cover their reeds or put them in cases but this is only to prevent evaporation as this is all a static container is able to do. The reed is already at full wetness (RH).



A brief conversation with a refrigeration/air conditioning engineer will clear this issue up.


Jack Lee once told us to suck on your reed before playing to get it wet, after that, the controlled natural humidity from your lungs will do the rest. He is a pretty fair piper so he may just have a clue, but this does not mean that a truly skilled salesman/woman could not convince him to try one of these gadgets. If he did, it would still only be an unsubstantiated opinion in the absence of credible technical evidence.



We were provided one of these to test in the uni lab and our lecturer did not promote the testing after reading the claims on the box. He said something like "effort into foolishness".



I will bet there is not an independent technical assessment of these devices as to their ability to actively control RH anywhere to be found. Just opinions, cleaver marketing and salesmanship.



The Emperor's New Clothes.
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Old 10-11-2018, 04:32 PM   #28
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

Seems like Harley is saying that the ToneProtector is a piece of crap and that purchasers have been ripper off. According to his profile, he has four years piping experience.

Sure, being sceptical is important, but writing off a device seems rather short-sighted.

There are many pipers in the dry climate of Denver that have reaped the benefit of the ToneProtector through having a more stable chanter reed with less of the warm-up time for having a reed sit at 15% RH before being played.

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Old 10-11-2018, 09:00 PM   #29
Doug Walton
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley G View Post
Gadgets make punters money, ya the capitalist system.



The mere assertion, in the absence of any evidence is merely an assertion.


The crystal manufacturer does not support the assertion that static silica crystals will actively control humidity. They have a system but it has a powered heat and ventilation system.


When your reed is at playing state it is not 87% RH. Dr Google will clear this issue up.


Between performances with our oboes, bassoons, clarinets and saxophones we generally do nothing more than wet the reed again before restarting. Some cover their reeds or put them in cases but this is only to prevent evaporation as this is all a static container is able to do. The reed is already at full wetness (RH).



A brief conversation with a refrigeration/air conditioning engineer will clear this issue up.


Jack Lee once told us to suck on your reed before playing to get it wet, after that, the controlled natural humidity from your lungs will do the rest. He is a pretty fair piper so he may just have a clue, but this does not mean that a truly skilled salesman/woman could not convince him to try one of these gadgets. If he did, it would still only be an unsubstantiated opinion in the absence of credible technical evidence.



We were provided one of these to test in the uni lab and our lecturer did not promote the testing after reading the claims on the box. He said something like "effort into foolishness".



I will bet there is not an independent technical assessment of these devices as to their ability to actively control RH anywhere to be found. Just opinions, cleaver marketing and salesmanship.



The Emperor's New Clothes.
Nice to know that you have the edge on all the silly rubes out there.

Where can I send money to get you to stop typing?
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Old 10-11-2018, 10:48 PM   #30
Harley G
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Default Re: Tone Protector vs. Pipers Pal

Doug, how much are you offering and do you have PayPal?


If you do what Jack Lee suggested you only have to pay for some spit, not an expensive gimmick.


When the makers state all the things that these gimmicks can do it is reasonable to expect some evidence to support the claims. None provided. Self praise is no recommendation.


If you want to keep your reeds damp, get a glass jar and put a sponge in it soaked with mouthwash. Lots of moisture and not many bugs. You could fashion a piece of pvc conduit to fit over your reed and put a wet sponge down the end of the conduit and this would also work. Not expensive either.



If it works, provide the technical information and the supporting evidence. How hard can it be? In some countries it is actually required under consumer protection legislation. Evidence, not rhetoric.
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