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Old 05-20-2010, 10:22 PM   #21
Heatherbelle
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

David you must let us hear your STB version some day.
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Old 05-21-2010, 07:46 PM   #22
TStephens
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

Quote:
Originally Posted by David View Post
Besides, it is blasphemy to teach in such a manner, and we are violating Holy Orders when we initiate the New Ones without all the proper handshakes, nudges, winks, tricks and mouth noises.
LOL! I tend to feel the same way, but I'm still going to simplify the first few tunes for a 5 or 6 year old child. They need a few tunes just to learn to connect the notes on the page with the fingering on the chanter. With children this age I might even give 2 or 3 simple children's songs, such as Frere Jacques, just to help them learn to read music. I also introduce simple G gracenotes and taps between notes to get the concept of gracenotes started.

The first bagpipe tune I often teach small children is the first part of Blue Bells of Scotland. I start with only one gracenote, the tap between the two C's in the 3rd bar. When the child can play the line pretty well, I add a high A gracenote to the first high A. And then progressively add gracenotes until finally that tap between the two C's becomes a grip. By the time we are done learning that part of the tune, the student has learned to do a couple of different doubling, G gracenotes, D throws, grips, and birls. And it has all been learned pretty painlessly. If I put all those things into the first lesson, it would be too much.
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Old 02-09-2020, 10:42 AM   #23
Newp
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

A song in writing is to allow music to be logged by one and played by others.short answer ? Yes grace notes are needed

To play without every note on that sheet(like grace notes) is changing theyre work and wont sound the same .. let them try and see how long b4 they are asking why it sounds wrong ... however ; some notes can be left out at first ..and with the grace notes so small I hear him ,wish we could bud

I only started a practice chanter 3 months ago and got a set of pipes 2 weeks ago, also I cant read sheet music (guitar for 20 years was all numbers )

I have to take the music and convert high A -low G notation to numbers 0-7 and t for thumb high g .... I tried leaving out grace notes but soon learned I was playing a different tune,in conclusion "in my opinion" some grace notes are die hard notes a tune needs(they should be bigger) while some can be left out at first

I convert the song to #tab using my guitar to note what absolutely needs be heard (amazing grace 6- 3- 1231-23-56-) then once I can play the basics I add taps,doublings,d throws and what else to get a good riff on my chanter and note it on my sheet

sounding dumb?.. guitar is numbers and tin whistle can be coloured dots covered and white stay open .... we get translaters to turn french to English to hear poetry so why must we use only one method for pipes?

Music is an art, sheet music is a language ,do what it takes to see and understand .... once your playing your honoring the song writer ,regardless how you learn it

I've played tin whistle for years and it's easy.... I stepped up to a chanter and was lost in the notes so I started with colour dots and quickly jumped to numbers to save time ... in 3 days I played amazing grace, scotland the brave and the gael ... after I got my pipes and drone reeds set (3 hours to tune and set presures) I was playing

So once again yes grace notes are important ; some more than others ... but most important is the sound

A...●● A-0
G......● G-T
F#.....○ F-1
E.......○ E-2
D.......○ D-3
C#.....○ C-4
B........○ B-5
A..............A-6
G..............G-7 .... the dots are E.
Take a page of sheet music and make it readable for you
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Old 02-09-2020, 12:30 PM   #24
EquusRacer
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

While embellishments are necessary and, as stated by others, part of the music, I've done an exercise with band members in chanter practices where we play a tune, leaving out all gracenotes and embellishments (which is really hard!). It sounds contraindicated, yet the purpose was to focus on rhythm, idiom and other elements, for it was very interesting how one pays attention, counting out things, with nothing else going on.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:31 AM   #25
Klondike Waldo
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

IMHO, Playing bagpipe tunes without embellishments is like singing without consonants
That said, which embellishments to use or not to use is largely a matter of taste, and one will fimd the same tune ornamented differently in different books.
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Old 02-10-2020, 08:42 AM   #26
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

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IMHO, Playing bagpipe tunes without embellishments is like singing without consonants
That said, which embellishments to use or not to use is largely a matter of taste, and one will fimd the same tune ornamented differently in different books.
Agreed. I have to say when I was P/M, there were certain band tunes where I would modify an embellishment if I felt it was going to compromise unison or other. However, barring that, I pretty much stuck to how the tune was written (unless there was a typo!).

Our current P/M, especially for competition tunes, has removed some embellishments, and even a few gracenotes, working toward better unison. While I support him (and he's an excellent minimum Grade 2 piper), it's a very controversial move to some in the band. One member even left in protest.
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Old 02-10-2020, 09:05 AM   #27
el gaitero
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

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Originally Posted by Macswegan View Post
[FONT=Arial][SIZE=3

]In another thread, someone asked about a hypothetical student who "just wants to play the pipes for their own entertainment . . . without learning all the embellishments."
..ask them to play any tune on a piano....using only the white keys...
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Old 02-10-2020, 10:39 AM   #28
Joseph Diodato
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

At the end of the day, to each their own. If someone has the time to take on the role of Embellishment Police, by all means... I, however, am strongly of the opinion that the embellishments are just as important as the melody notes. As others have noted, there can be great value in simplying tunes for beginners. There is also great utility in doing so in cases where a health condition may impair execution of the usual embellishments.

Cheers,
Joe
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Old 02-10-2020, 02:17 PM   #29
Klondike Waldo
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?

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Originally Posted by el gaitero View Post
..ask them to play any tune on a piano....using only the white keys...
One could play any bagpipe tune on the piano using only white notes- from Low F up to High G. No problem. The thing is, on piano, you can repeat a note by re-pressing the key and you can emphasize a note by pressing the key more forcefully. On bagpipes, one can't do either without ornaments/embellishments- it's not the variety of notes that's an issue, it's articulation and expression. Without ornaments, there is neither, and the instrument would be only somewhat more musical than a tuneable vacuum cleaner
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Old 02-11-2020, 07:23 PM   #30
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Default Re: Leaving out the gracenotes?





Greetings to All,

Hmmm.... (and sigh...)

Having now again read this Thread... and with its
large gap of Time... between... the contributions...
in this Holy Ground... and its minefield of possible
Heresies... inadvertent though they may be... (Ah!
to embellish... or not...to embellish? That!... is the
question!)... I have but one stance upon this field...
and that only pertaining to... children's songs... and
folk tunes... and hymns.

And in this wise:

Oft times... a simple tune... and played simply... the
more easily catches... the ear... and the mind... and
the heart.

And in playing for children... I find this the best.

Likewise... in the playing of hymns... I find that the
substance... and the meter... of the work... carries
home the message best. (And, I have sometimes
heard hymns played with enough gracings... to
sink a bleedin' cattle boat.)

Now... if there is any sort of piping competition... to
get us through The Gates On High (and if our pitch
gets any higher... They... may be hearing us now :)
then I may well have to change my fingering... but...
not until... :)

All are welcome to play howsoever they may choose...
but in these three categories... simple... at least to me...
seems the best.

Regards to All,

Pip01





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Last edited by Pip01; 02-11-2020 at 07:29 PM.
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