Welcome to
the forums at bobdunsire.com
bobdunsire.com forums bobdunsire.com forums
You can reset your password by going here. Be sure to try your current email and any email addresses you may have had in the past.
Otherwise please use the Contact Us link at the bottom of the forums. In order to help you, please provide the following info: Your Display Name from the old forum and any possible email addresses you would have used before. Without that info we cannot locate your account.


Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > Music
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read

Music Discuss specific tunes, the writing of tunes, other questions, concerns, etc. related specifically to the music or music books.

Platinum Sponsors
Reply
 
Thread Tools
Old 03-26-2019, 06:02 AM   #11
Macswegan
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Jul 2003
Location: Pennsylvania
Posts: 817
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by DamhCabrachPiping View Post
Iím just hesitant to embrace piob High A in my tune if itís not expected of me. Iíve never competed in piob, and have just recently managed to learn on my own.
What I play (and what I have noticed the vast majority of piobaireachd players play, at least in North America) is the distinctive piobaireachd high G, and the usual fingering for high A.
__________________
"Totally lacking rhythm and musicality" since 1988!
Macswegan is offline   Reply With Quote
Gold Sponsor
Old 03-26-2019, 06:13 AM   #12
CalumII
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Feb 2002
Location: London Town
Posts: 5,238
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

High A does not matter. High G does. High A is sometimes more natural depending on the tune.
CalumII is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 12:52 PM   #13
Roddy Livingstone
Forum Gold Medal
 
Join Date: Aug 2011
Location: United Kingdom
Posts: 607
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

Also depends on the movement before the high G e.g. 'embari' & 'chedari'.
Roddy Livingstone is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 02:43 PM   #14
Dan Bell
Forum Clasp
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
Location: Columbia, MD
Posts: 851
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

I'm not a piobaireachd competitor. As a listener, I couldn't care less what fingering is used, as long as the note is in tune... It strikes me as fairly ridiculous that this is still a "thing." Modern chanters can play a perfectly in-tune hi-G without the closed fingering (or with it), so why does it matter?
Dan Bell is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 05:56 PM   #15
Patrick McLaurin
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 5,674
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

I made it over half way through the Kilberry book before I found a piobaireachd that would basically require you to play high G with the middle finger down:

The Unjust Incarceration has high G strikes (echo beats I think they're called in ceol mor) and the resulting grace note is E not F, so unless you feel like striking with 2 fingers from normal high G, the piobaireachd high G fingering will allow you to only strike with the pointer finger to sound the E gracenote.

This is still the only reason I've found that technically justifies the piob fingering for high G. Of course, one might prefer the timbre provided by the alternate fingering, but then that begs the question do they use piob fingering in light music because of this preference?
Patrick McLaurin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 06:57 PM   #16
thevoidboy
Forum Member
 
Join Date: May 2013
Location: Baltimore
Posts: 89
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

No. You can double strike.

But honestly, itís what Dan says: play it in tune and let the tone ring out.

It is just demonstrably true that open high G on modern chanters sounds better.

And I know a two-time Clasp winner who plays this way.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
thevoidboy is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 08:43 PM   #17
Jim Fogelman
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Jan 2005
Location: San Diego, CA
Posts: 1,931
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

Iím still of the mindset (though with no definitive proof), that piob HG was to flatten the note to closer to G natural, while light music kept it closer to G sharp. Looking at old manuscripts, you see piobs notated in the key of D, with a natural sign on the G (or I might have switched piob and light music keys).

Again, there is no proof of this; it is just my speculation based on what Iíve seen in older manuscripts.
__________________
You don't have fun by winning. You win by having fun.
Jim Fogelman is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-26-2019, 08:47 PM   #18
DamhCabrachPiping
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 233
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Fogelman View Post
Iím still of the mindset (though with no definitive proof), that piob HG was to flatten the note to closer to G natural, while light music kept it closer to G sharp. Looking at old manuscripts, you see piobs notated in the key of D, with a natural sign on the G (or I might have switched piob and light music keys).



Again, there is no proof of this; it is just my speculation based on what Iíve seen in older manuscripts.


In light music the F and C are sharp. Not G


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DamhCabrachPiping is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 06:00 AM   #19
Patrick McLaurin
Holy smoking keyboard!
 
Join Date: Aug 2006
Location: Lubbock, TX
Posts: 5,674
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jim Fogelman View Post
I’m still of the mindset (though with no definitive proof), that piob HG was to flatten the note to closer to G natural, while light music kept it closer to G sharp.
I recently "butchered", in the words of a mutual acquaintance, an old Sinclair chanter that would play G# with normal fingering and G with piob fingering; I modified the throat so that it plays G either way, albeit still flatter with the piob fingering.

While this chanter is only 50-65 years old, and thus not even representative of "tradition", I don't see why this *shouldn't* be the case, or written in the affirmative: makers should make chanters to play this way! There are many light music tunes that would sound better with the G#; there's a whole slew we've borrowed from other traditions and just changed the G# to G.

Granted, in today's hypertuned band environment where every note has to be spot on, more than one note coming from one hole would present a tuning challenge, and chanter makers would have to start making reeds that played the accidentals correctly in their designs, and I just don't see it happening. Coupled with the continued use of a cylindrically bored practice chanters which can't distinguish C, F, and G# from C#, F#, and G anyway, we further limit what the instrument is certainly capable of doing. It's only 12 notes, how hard could it be?

Back to the OP's question. On some chanters, the timbre of piob high G is nice. On some, maybe not, I dunno, it's not a test I usually run. If it sounds nice on your chanter, why not? (Well, perhaps because you don't want to retune your high G between ceol mor and beag events...)

I *would* learn the alternate fingering for high G. But, my reasoning is this. Everyone should learn alternate fingerings, including for C and F. There is much more music beyond our 9 notes and exposing yourself to it brings nothing but growth. And perhaps, someday, you'll pick up various other bagpipes (in the past year I've acquired a Swayne border pipe with 16 notes and an uilleann chanter with its 2 octaves, both currently cross fingered, utilizing no keywork) and the alternate fingerings I've learned on the highland pipes (including piob high G) has helped me acclimate to the fingering styles of these instruments all the quicker.

Last edited by Patrick McLaurin; 03-27-2019 at 06:04 AM.
Patrick McLaurin is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 03-27-2019, 07:22 AM   #20
DamhCabrachPiping
Forum Regular
 
Join Date: Jul 2018
Location: Edmonton Alberta Canada
Posts: 233
Default Re: Piob High G/A vs High G/A in Piobaireachd competition

In response to Patrick:

Yes obviously I do know them, and am comfortable playing them itís more rather an inquiry regarding whether or not I should.

Grade IV piob solo, tune has High Aís and Iím mixing (due to it being a ďnewĒ skill) then together when Iím not focusing on it. I obviously need to make a decision as competition starts May 4th here (May the Fourth be with me on the day) and being largely Ďself taughtí in the art of Piobaireachd I would of course be at a disadvantage if I ignored the potential for Ďproperí fingering


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
DamhCabrachPiping is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Thread Tools

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off


Silver Sponsor

All times are GMT -7. The time now is 01:06 PM.