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Technique & Instrument Related to techniques, to the instrument, to the components, to maintenance.

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Old 05-11-2019, 08:17 AM   #1
RichmondPiper
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Default MCS attached to drones

Some pipers say that attaching an MCS (Ross, Auchiltibuie/Highland Reeds etc) to the drones affects the sound.

Does it?
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Old 05-11-2019, 10:12 AM   #2
thevoidboy
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

Do you mean, does it affect the sound appreciably to the point of it being detrimental?

No. Clasp winners play with MCS attached to drones.

But some say they can hear a difference. The question is, is there payoff for MCS for you? Given climate and performance requirements, you may not need it.

But many are willing to sacrifice some perceived tonal difference in favor of the stability it provides.



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Old 05-12-2019, 05:03 AM   #3
RichmondPiper
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

Thanks. That's my take on it as well. Two of my three sets of pipes are ebony which is prone to cracking if it gets wet. Bottle traps on their own aren't sufficiently effective so I'm looking at other options.
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Old 05-12-2019, 12:06 PM   #4
piper_hm
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

Can't go wrong with the Bannatyne Dri Flo system. Lightweight, easy to maintain, very little drone volume loss.
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Old 05-12-2019, 01:19 PM   #5
el gaitero
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

Quote:
Originally Posted by thevoidboy View Post

Clasp winners play with MCS attached to drones.

But some say they can hear a difference.


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Except for the very obvious poorly tuned frankenpipe set up I think Many, and top o the world judges too, were proven wrong back in the day when synthetic drone reeds and bags debuted and subsequently emerged.
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Old 05-12-2019, 04:34 PM   #6
Harley G
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

I heard and viewed results of this issue being tested as a student project at a uni lab and the results were very clear. As the results remain the property of those at the uni in question they cannot be released without some sort of consent however, there must be at least one smart person in this forum that can do the same testing and provide the scientific results. It all seems pretty simple to test and I am no science genius.



The overtones are not as full with the system attached. The software attached to the microphone tells us this. Some of the students were able to pick the pipe system with and without. Some pipers claim the same. Does it really matter is probably the real issue.
To this end, some pipers like the harsh icey buzz that is produced by large synthetic/carbon bladed drone reeds while many others prefer the more rounded smooth tone that is produced by cane reeds, especially the bass. This was just put down to preference much the way some car owners like the different exhaust tone from different sports cars.
One judge may like it while another hates it, a lottery on the day as far as contest results are concerned.
The other result tested was the effectiveness of the moisture control systems. Some were found to be total hogwash and the claims made by the manufacturers would not stand up if a complaint about some products was lodged with the ACCC. You cannot makes claims based on unproven assertions and what the "tea lady" might think. Not in Australia anyway.

Simply put, measure the RH of the air going in, ("breath"). This is a narrow ranged value if we are to believe the physiologists and medical teachings. Then measure the RH of the air leaving the bag. In the lab they attached a hygrometer to the top of the drones. Look at the results and then look at the claims and work it out for yourself. You don't need to be a mathematician to compare the numbers.


I look forward to some bright spark producing the numbers and/or audio graphs.


Thanks


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Old 05-12-2019, 11:24 PM   #7
William McKenzie
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

Quote:
Originally Posted by Harley G View Post
I heard and viewed results of this issue being tested as a student project at a uni lab and the results were very clear. As the results remain the property of those at the uni in question they cannot be released without some sort of consent however, there must be at least one smart person in this forum that can do the same testing and provide the scientific results. It all seems pretty simple to test and I am no science genius.



The overtones are not as full with the system attached. The software attached to the microphone tells us this. Some of the students were able to pick the pipe system with and without. Some pipers claim the same. Does it really matter is probably the real issue.
To this end, some pipers like the harsh icey buzz that is produced by large synthetic/carbon bladed drone reeds while many others prefer the more rounded smooth tone that is produced by cane reeds, especially the bass. This was just put down to preference much the way some car owners like the different exhaust tone from different sports cars.
One judge may like it while another hates it, a lottery on the day as far as contest results are concerned.
The other result tested was the effectiveness of the moisture control systems. Some were found to be total hogwash and the claims made by the manufacturers would not stand up if a complaint about some products was lodged with the ACCC. You cannot makes claims based on unproven assertions and what the "tea lady" might think. Not in Australia anyway.

Simply put, measure the RH of the air going in, ("breath"). This is a narrow ranged value if we are to believe the physiologists and medical teachings. Then measure the RH of the air leaving the bag. In the lab they attached a hygrometer to the top of the drones. Look at the results and then look at the claims and work it out for yourself. You don't need to be a mathematician to compare the numbers.


I look forward to some bright spark producing the numbers and/or audio graphs.


Thanks


Harley G
This is what I'm talking about, actual A/B controlled comparisons. Is this searchable?

"You cannot makes claims based on unproven assertions and what the "tea lady" might think. Not in Australia anyway." - I wish this were the case in the US. Seriously.

And as others have also said it probably just comes down to preference.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:33 AM   #8
gatormac
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

The simple answer is yes, it does have an effect. Anytime you stick something into the base of the drone stocks, there is a dampening (quieting) of the drones. But as others have stated, it isn't necessarily significant enough to be detrimental to the tone. And then there are the benefits of a very stable and dry system keeping things nicely in tune. For the vast majority of pipers, the benefits outweigh costs. What you have in there is important too. I have found that things like the Ross hoses are pretty good- minimal impact on drone volume/tone (but there is some impact). Other things, like Shepherd "tone enhancers" really kill the volume of your drones and the overall tone of your pipe.

If you ever hear a really good piper play a good set with no system and a hide bag, vs. a system and synthetic bag, live in the room with them, one system after another, you will notice the different. Add cane reeds into the mix and the difference is even more noticeable. But that is a really good piper with things perfectly setup. For most of us, the difference is negligible and the benefits far outweigh the costs.
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Old 05-13-2019, 02:53 PM   #9
RichmondPiper
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

Quote:
Originally Posted by William McKenzie View Post
This is what I'm talking about, actual A/B controlled comparisons. Is this searchable?

"You cannot makes claims based on unproven assertions and what the "tea lady" might think. Not in Australia anyway." - I wish this were the case in the US. Seriously.

And as others have also said it probably just comes down to preference.
I'd also be interested to see this if it's searchable.

PS Of course, any suggestion that the tea lady knows more than the judges couldn't be further from anyone's mind ....
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Old 05-14-2019, 05:44 AM   #10
Harley G
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Default Re: MCS attached to drones

Should have also mentioned that the one-way drone valves that were popular some time ago were also tested and they got a poor rating for their ability to alter the sound.


The canister systems did have one good side as they helped to prevent drones roaring on startup so they did do something good for the novice pipers with poor bag control and poor reed configuration.
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