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Go Back   Bob Dunsire Bagpipe Forums > General Discussion > History, Tradition, Heritage
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History, Tradition, Heritage As related to the subjects of piping, drumming and pipe bands.

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Old 12-17-2005, 02:19 PM   #11
Yuri
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

This whole discussion assumes that bagpipes equal GHP. Well, they don't. There are a whole lot ( about 100) living traditions of bagpiping out there, from very vigorous and well-known, like the north Spanish types and Bulgarian to the nearly extinct like some tribal styles in Russia in the Ural mountains. They all have different techniques, sounds, etc etc . Some fingerings come amazingly close to the recorder one. There are some French types that are nearly identical (to the recorder), and there are some Spanish chanters playable the same way. It's not so much the limitations of the particular chanter type as the needs of the music played.You don't need the problems of cross-fingering when all the music you play is diatonic, fitting into 9 notes. It's all a matter of placing the fingerholes, and adjusting their size.
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Old 12-17-2005, 04:06 PM   #12
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

Dear Eric S.,

Don't worry about your daughter learning the recorder and it's affect on the GHB. I learned soprano recorder as a child, clarinet in high school and college, after college I learned F recorder fingerings, then took up the bagpipes at 39. Therefor, I have many different fingering systems and techniques in my head, and have no trouble switching back and forth. As soon as I pick up any of my instruments, my brain automatically makes the adjustments for me.

Learning the recorder at an early age allowed my brain to make those all-important connections necessary for fingering dexterity. Although I started pipes late, I have an advantage over total beginners because of that early training. It's never a mistake to take up ANY musical instrument at an early age, and in my opinion will only enhance future experiences with other instruments.
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Old 12-17-2005, 09:42 PM   #13
Ron Abbott
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

Quote:
Originally posted by Roger Huth:
I can always tell if a pupil also plays the recorder, as their top hand finger positions tend to give this away.
The index finger bends down from the top while the other two are straightish. The tip of the thumb seems to be used which I think causes this.
A difficult habit to try to break I've noticed.
'A pity they didn't learn the practice chanter first' is thought going through my mind when teaching.
I think the recorder is valuable for understanding more about music, as it is not restricted to one octave.
Cheers
Roger, my own experience is similar. The school my son goes to, teaches the recorder as part of the normal class curriculum.

I'm trying to teach my son the practice chanter. I say 'try', because I teach him one day and then he goes off to school the next morning with his recorder, only to come home in "recorder mode" with his fingers bent and wanting to use his finger tips.

At a school parents evening, a teacher mentioned to me that my son had told him he was learning the chanter. The teachers thought it was quaint, inferring that neither it nor the GHB, was a proper musical instrument. More a sort of uncivilised, native, noise maker.

If my wife hadn't been with me, I'd have told them quite bluntly where to stick their recorder, octaves and all !

I started off on the recorder myself and hated both it and the music teachers. It took my father months to get my fingers and blowing "corrected" !

By the way Roger, please pass regards to Di Reeves, I met her when she was out in HK recently.
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Old 12-18-2005, 09:09 AM   #14
Paul Gretton
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew T. Lenz, Jr.:
[QB] It's been pointed out to me that the fingering on a recorder is very similar ]
How many beers had your informant had?
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Old 12-18-2005, 09:10 AM   #15
Paul Gretton
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

Quote:
Originally posted by Andrew T. Lenz, Jr.:


Is anyone aware of any connection between these two instruments back in the mists of time?

They are both operated by blowing into them and opening/closing various combinations of holes. I guess that's a connection! ;-)
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Old 12-18-2005, 10:53 AM   #16
Andrew Lenz
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

In case no one noticed, I originally asked this question almost two years ago . . . Addressing "eric s." probably won't do a lot of good as he hasn't posted since January 2004!

"Yuri" dug up an old one!

Andrew
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Old 12-18-2005, 06:57 PM   #17
vegasgeorge
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

An old one, eh? I wondered how come so many replies got posted before I saw the thread.

I've been a recorder player since high school. I still have a complete consort of Yamaha's and an individual Moeck olive wood soprano which is the nicest soprano I've ever seen.

Yes, it is confusing to play both the recorder and the GHB. In fact, I don't try anymore. Since I've taken up the pipes again, I've set the recorders aside. There are simply too many similarities between the fingerings and the feel of the instruments. I suppose that if I had enough time to practice both equally, my poor brain could sort things out. But, I can't play the pipes for days, then pick up the recorder and expect to perform correctly on it, and visa versa.
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Old 12-18-2005, 08:45 PM   #18
CWRoberson
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

I use a recorder to practice D-throws and such late a night. Why? Because the recorder can be played quietly. I use the same fingerings as on the chanter and I keep my fingers straight.

Also, the recorder can be a useful practice instrument when your cheeks give out. Thus, allowing you to continue fingering practice.
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Old 12-19-2005, 12:30 AM   #19
Yuri
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

As a matter of fact, right now I am in the process of making a couple of practice chanters for a couple of people. To my complete astonishment I found out that they do NOT use the same fingering. They both played highland pipes since childhood, and yet neither uses the standard pattern. It surprised me as much as it would anyone in the piping fraternity. By the way, tey use different fingering from each other, too. Which made my job all the more tricky, as I had to retune some of the holes. And Yuri is my real name, no need for the ""-s.
On another note, in Eastern Europe, where I come from, pipers learn not on the practice chanter, which there doesn't exist(more is the pity), but on the equivalent of the pennywhistle, as most Eastern European pipes have six working fingerholes, and it's easy to get used to the thumb-hole instead of overblowing.( they usually DO have a 7th fingerhole, but just as usually it has a different function from the GHP's one.
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Old 12-29-2005, 07:45 AM   #20
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Default Re: Pipe chanter vs. recorder fingering?

Yuri, what sort of Eastern European pipe were you discussing? I only have experience with the Bulgarian Gaida, which has the same number of holes and positions of fingers as the GHB (but the fingering is quite different). The top fingerhole on the Gaida is called the "mormorka" (fleahole)and it raises the pitch of most notes below it a semitone, making the gaidanitsa partly chromatic. The Gaida doesn't break the octave, but good gaidari can squeeze extra hard whilst playing the thumbnote and raise it up a semitone.
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